For All PetCo lovers/haters...

[bunnyman]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/sportsbusiness/news/story?id=1783769&partnersite=espn

read the story...pretty funny

[Tarasco1]

Funny! I'm going to have to look for the brick when I go down there soon.

[Steven Pro]

In my opinion, this excerpt is the most important part of this story. "PETA, which objects to the sale of animals altogether." This should serve as a makeup call to many of us that love our pets. It does not matter how conscienctious or responsible PetCo is or isn't. They don't want us to own any pets and if they take down PetCo it will be someone else tomorrow.

[monkeyprof]

I laugh at the message but I really dislike PETA

[Sardaukar]

Im actually surpised someone found out about it. My bet is that no one actually discovered it and PETA eventually leeked that it was there for some publicity. :D

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by Sardaukar
Im actually surpised someone found out about it. My bet is that no one actually discovered it and PETA eventually leeked that it was there for some publicity. :D

That sounds like a very accurate guess.

[meister_ben]

PETA- People Eating Tasty Animals

[cortez marine]

I was amused...
And then I read about the 'cause' to get people to stop drinking milk because of the way dairy cows... [ brought into existance for milk production]...are 'er treated.
And I was confused...
To bring them into the world at significant cost...and then not milk them???
How does PETA hope to enlist rational people to support them with such lapses in judgement and reason?
Who writes their stuff I wonder?
They give PETCO sympathy and credibility when they go on like that.
In fact...if I were PETCO, I'd contribute to them to keep it up!
Steve

[zily]

as much as i dislike animals suffereing....


i hate peta. Their gimmicks are stupid, and inspire me to eat hamburgers instead of spaghetti.


I could go on and on about Peta...

I find it odd that Petco donates more money to animal shelters and adopts more animals than People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Don't make me bring up a source-- i'm far too lazy.

[NickTide]

great, now everytime I think of the padres, I will think of Petco. Thanks alot PETA. lol. I bet petco is making out on this deal. I didnt even know they had nameing rights until now. Wish PETA would advertise for my business. LOL

"how many vegetables had to die for your stupid salad?"

[NickTide]

zily, funny how that works... and who preserves the forests? Hunters. Hikers clean the trails, and fishermen organize river, lake and beach clean ups. It's all about moderation. And if a PETA member ever gives my Daughter a "McCruelty Meal" with a toy of Ronald McDonald holding a bloody butcher knife, there will be one tree hugger who will have nightmares about ronald for a long, long time.

[therealacarolla]

too funny, PETA has it's heart in the right place, they just don't REALLY understand! Go talk to 90% of the PETA members 10 years after they've stopped being an activist, and they're everything they boycotted 10 years earlier!

[cwbroden]

I am not a PETA lover either, but that is pretty funny on their part. Got to give them a chuckle on that one.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by cwbroden
I am not a PETA lover either, but that is pretty funny on their part. Got to give them a chuckle on that one.

No one would have even noticed it if they hadn't leaked the information to the press, which weakens it a lot, IMO. And people will soon forget about it. I would be surprised if it changes anyone's buying habits. I'd think that if they'd tried really hard, they could have found a better use of that money.

Dave

[Blue Baron]

I would have to agree with the majority of the opinions of PETA. You know, it's a real shame too. PETA's main purpose is an admirable one . . . however, they push it with a religious zeal and scope that is just insane (see Got Milk).

[spamin76]

PETA is nuts - I went through a eating meat is wrong stage and went vegetarian - and stupid PETA clowns have driven me back to the errors of my old ways - I just didn't want to associate myself with their silly antics. I think a lot of the people in there are kind of disturbed.

[laxing22]

Originally posted by Wolverine
....I'd think that if they'd tried really hard, they could have found a better use of that money. Dave

That or those same weirdoes that find "hidden messages" in everything with too much time on there hands randomly came across it; was a PETA person and claimed it as their own.

[Tarasco1]

Well, I went to a game last weekend, and there are a TON of bricks with stuff written on them. I looked for a couple of minutes, but there's no way that you could find that specific brick without a map and directions. Would have been funny to see, though.

[nf4sevenw]

PETA=crazy, just plain wacko. they should be in politics cause they know how to spin a story.

[Putawaywet]

If anyone gets a chance to catch Penn & Teller's show they have running on cable during the night the episode they did on PETA was a real eye opener. They ripped on them pretty good and exposed a lot of myths and lies within the organization.

My favorite was the part about how PETA publically claims they are against the tactics employed by ALF or any other militant animal groups, but their tax return reveals they have written checks for tens of thousands of dollars to the family of the ALF poster boy himself.

Brett

[JHReef]

I don't think PETA has much credibility with the American public so who cares about them. I prefer the kind of PITA that you fill with warm delicious dairy cow meat, cheese, sour cream, and chased with a big glass of milk.:p

[Scuba Dog]

LOL int the words of George Bush Sr' there WACO'

[Scuba_Dave]

Beef, it's whats for dinner. I have eaten Alligator, deer, rabbit, dove, squirrel & god knows what else. I have cousins that hunt, when they are in the woods PETA better hug a tree...for safety.

[TheMandarinFish]

"If you walked by and read their message, you wouldn't know it had anything to do with PETA," said Don Cowan, PETCO's director of communications.

PETA, which objects to the sale of animals altogether, has targeted PETCO for months, written letters to Padres executives in hopes that they would cancel the naming rights agreement. They have also sent out monthly casualty reports citing animal deaths in PETCO stores to company officials.

PETCO officials contend that they have investigated some of the reports submitted by PETA and most, they say, are mischaracterizations. Since 1965, PETCO has adopted more than one million animals and over the past five years has given a total of $18 million to 1,900 animal shelters, according to Cowan.

Wow. A couple of you guys have little ethics for people who nominally care about animals.

I believe in the OBVIOUS NECESSITY of protecting forests, and if any drunk, redneck hunter came at me with country music playing, some doe-urine dabbed behind his ears, and his orange jumpsuit on, I'd jam my fist down his throat.

I haven't met a redneck that I can't curbstomp.

Oooooh - threatening primarily female animal-activists on the internet.

You're a big man.

And quoting a Bush? :lol:

Come on now guys, you're better than this. It was funny what PETA did and it is obvious that PetCo butchers animals, in spite of what their Minister of Propoganda says.

PETA deliberately acts outragreously, not for symapathy or membership drives, but because they are drawing attention to what they see as important ethical issues.

Power to them.

Just because you don't agree with all their methods (come on now, are you going to argue with their beautiful, naked women giving away veggie food? Are you going to beat them up because your cousin's a hunter ?!?)....

doesn't mean they are stupid. I don't agree with many people, but that doesn't make them crazy or dumb.

PetCO sux.

[asmussen]

How does encoding a message on an obscure brick amoung thousands draw attention to the issue of animal cruelty??
Having been involved in animal rescue for the past 7 years,I have found that there are many organization making a real difference- calmly, quietly and LEGALLY, with out associating themselves with domestic terrorists like ALF or wasting valuable resourses trying to get the names of towns like Fish Kill , NY- or Slaughter, MN changed to something more warm and fuzzy - Who cares!
PETA is an insult to legitamit organizations who do make an actual differences in the world.
What a difference could be made if that money were better spent, than on "stunts" that only succeed in discreditting themselves.

[TheMandarinFish]

Read this before responding, plz - http://www.peta.org/Automation/NewsItem.asp?id=4440

Sure, there are more effective organizations at certain animal protections. I can name a dozen.

That doesn't make PetCo right or PETA's challenge to them or drawing attention invalid.

PETA draws attention, that's what they do. You may not agree, but that's their particular niche.

If you want to preserve birds, give to Audobon Society.

For nature reserve acquisition, the Nature Conservancy.

Union of Concerned Scientists, World Wildlife Fund, Sierra Club, etc. are all excellent.

But PetCo is a horrible, vicious, brutal corporation that must be stopped. Don't threaten to kill the messenger. Especially when they (PETA) are pacifists.

PetCo commits genocide as a business practice daily, and you guys question an animal rights group that is attention-based in strategy (deliberately)?

You're missing the point entirely. With all due respect.

Asmussend - I respect your work, definitely. But PetCo's evil (and they are sinister, make no mistake) *MUST* be drawn to the public spotlight.

Whether you agree 100% with all actions of all members of a group trying to call attention to this very serious problem.

It's PetCo that will help get CITES to shut down our hobby. No joke.

Check it out - http://www.petcocruelty.com/index.asp

Here are many examples - http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%2Bpetco+abuse

[cwbroden]

Interesting link.

[asmussen]

"Sure, there are more effective organizations............"
That is my point.
All the independant sights that rate charities agree - they are a waste of good money. I gave over 30,000 to charities last year - no a dime to PETA - but thank you for the 20 cents on your mailings- keep them coming!!!!

But now this all no longer has any thing to do with Reef Keeping............

[Zander]

who cares?:confused:

GO PADRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[laxing22]

Originally posted by TheMandarinFish
.................Especially when they (PETA) are pacifists.....

Originally posted by TheMandarinFish
......I believe in the OBVIOUS NECESSITY of protecting forests, and if any drunk, redneck hunter came at me with country music playing, some doe-urine dabbed behind his ears, and his orange jumpsuit on, I'd jam my fist down his throat.

I haven't met a redneck that I can't curbstomp..........

Yea, you sound like a pacifist

Typical PETA - they will beat up a person but save a cow from becoming food to feed a starving person.

[despot101]

Originally posted by TheMandarinFish
I believe in the OBVIOUS NECESSITY of protecting forests, and if any drunk, redneck hunter came at me with country music playing, some doe-urine dabbed behind his ears, and his orange jumpsuit on, I'd jam my fist down his throat.

I haven't met a redneck that I can't curbstomp.

You're a big man.

Just because you don't agree with all their methods (come on now, are you going to argue with their beautiful, naked women giving away veggie food? Are you going to beat them up because your cousin's a hunter ?!?)....
doesn't mean they are stupid. I don't agree with many people, but that doesn't make them crazy or dumb.

PetCO sux.

Why do you say "Just because you don't agree with all their methods......Are you going to beat them up " but then also say "I'd jam my fist down his throat.". Hypocritical maybe?

Also if you need any "redneck hunters" to "curbstomp" come up the ND during hunting season and cry to the deer. See where that gets you.

[spamin76]

If keeping pets is so terrible - if my dog really wanted to live free in the wild how come he doesn't bolt out the open door and make a run for freedom? I think even he is smart enough to know PETA is wrong and that no one in the wild is going to give him belly rubs, play fetch, or give him food so he can be fat and lazy - my dog likes me enough to stay despite many circumstances he could make a run for it.

Like wise - all my fish seem perfectly happy living in a 48x18 glass box - none of them have tried to jump out - they are free to live out their lives free of predation, with food on demand, and plenty of hiding places - when they get sick they get prompt medical treatment - get quarantined away from aggressors when they get injured - sounds better than living in the wild to me - when they get hurt there, they are food for bigger fish.

I just can't see where PETA is comming from ... granted animal cruelty is unacceptable - but being against keeping pets is just asinine. My outdoor cats never complained and they were free to come and go as they pleased - they came back home day after day even though they weren't allowed inside - they loved the attention and petting.

[Flipturn88]

Imagine if we had no pets...imagine if humans left all animals to run wild and free withought any restraint or control, and never ate any meats or eggs whatsoever. A HUGE portion of the population would lose their jobs, and we would spend all of our time and efforts trying to avoid any contact with animals as much as possible.

Whether PETA likes it or not, animals are always going to be a part of our culture; dogs and cats have been domesticated to the point that they rely on us for shelter, food, and love. True there is a huge difference between animal care and cruelty, but PETA shouldn't try to take away the part of pet ownership that benefits both man and animal.

Just my opinion

[TheMandarinFish]

A HUGE portion of the population would lose their jobs, and we would spend all of our time and efforts trying to avoid any contact with animals as much as possible. PetCo abuse, neglect, and wholesale massacre is ok because it provides jobs?

What about otter scrubbing with oil spills? Does that justify negligence and furthering of the oil economy? As long as there's otters to scrub oil off of, we are justified?

I agree with your 2nd paragraph, but that first seems a bit short sighted. Just my $.02

I think it's safe to say PetCO is far, far worse that PETA.

It's PetCo that will expedite the demise of this hobby, or heavy resrtictions at least. They are plundering the seas and massacre'ing a vast percentage of the animals.

Totally unethical. Totally unsustainable. Complaining about vegetarians won't prevent what CITES is going to do.

This hobby is going to get severely restricted as a necessary measure to insure the survival of countless dying species. Thanks to things like PetCo... "Where Pets Go To Die."

[ssheipel]

ROTFLMAO!

Somewhere in all these messages (I just read the postings today) someone suggests dairy cows were created ("brought into existence") to produce milk.

I know we've become a bit disconnected from our food sources, but a cow (a female bovine that has given birth at least once) produces milk as part of the reproductive cycle; to feed her offspring. Just like every other female mammal.

Man, thanks for the chuckle. And here I thought cows were invented so we could have cheese!

My favourite PETA wonkiness (fanatics of any cause are hillarious) involves the use of pregnant mares (horses) to gather estrogen for the production of birth control pills. I used to work as a reporter close to a facility where such mares were housed and their urine collected (from which the estrogen is extracted). PETA issued an angry news release crying about the pure cruelty of "forcing" the horses to sleep standing up!

Which is true, the horses were sleeping standing up -- but that's because that's how horses sleep. In fact if an adult horse lies down (vs rolling around in glee in the dust) it probably signals that something is seriously wrong with the animal.

Still, the hidden message in the brick was a damn good publicity stunt -- afterall we're even discussing it here, a sign it did what it was intended to do.

steve

[Flipturn88]

When I say people would lose jobs, I mean the farmers that raise livestock and the scuba divers that photograph reefs. If we were to aviod all contact with animals, such jobs would not exist.

Do I think what Petco is doing is right? Not for the most part. I do agree that Petco needs to revaluate some of their practices, such as selling saltwater fish with unexperienced workers (for example, when I saw their display, 99% of the fish were covered in ich), but they do have a wonderful animal adoption agency that has saved many dogs and cats from the pound. I can't speak on the other animals they sell from experience, but for some reason I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't cared for as adequatley as they should.

[Conano]

in my openion, PETA is the equivelant of the Klu Klux Klan. i know i am likey gonna get flamed for this,but ohh well... The KKK originally tought men who treated their wives or children or the like a lesson.... If a man was foudn out to beat his wife evernight, they went out and beat hte hell outta him.... But what is it today? a buncha racicst pieces of crap who took the original message of the charter and totally corrupted it...The same with PETA.... i'm sure the original founders understood the nessicity of fish, beef, chicken and such for food, but now the new member say it's all bad... Yet....Humans are Omnivores.. We can attain some substanace from vegitation... but earlie man was a carnivore... surviving off meat... Often Raw..... If peta is gonna boycott and complain about humans eating meat, yet not say crap about dogs, cats, bears, fish, wolfs, wild cats, lizards, snakes, and other animals eating meat.... why? Because no other animal pays them any care int he world..... or even understands their pathetic ramblings.... I know that all do not belive in the bible, but GOD put many many animals here for humans consumption, I cannot remember the passage, but it says it there, in genisis i belive.....

to the points. PETA = KKK of the animal world

[Flipturn88]

This is for the religious people:

Genesis 1:28 - God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Genesis 1:29-30 - "...they will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food..."

There you go, Conano.

[Conano]

Thanks Flip....

[DgenR8]

It's enough that this discussion has gone from Petco to PETA, let's not take it down a religious path, or it will be closed. Discussions of a political or religious nature are not welcome here.

[mellen]

About 5 years ago, I walked into a PetsMart to buy salt and immediately noticed a new display of 30 Betta Splendons all dying in their little cups filled with a mysterious dark blue/green liquid. I grabbed the department manager and asked what was up. He said, "Oh. the new girl accidently added Copper Safe instead of dechlorinator when she changed their water". Then he turned back to a customer he was selling a tank setup to. No action - just a dismissal of the fish (and me). Well, I happen to love Bettas - they were my first fish as a child (took good care of 'em, too!), so I didn't want to waste time looking for the Gen. Mgr. I just went to a shelf, grabbed Amquel, found their filling sink and changed out every one of those goddamn betta bowls! Nobody stopped me - they were too busy to notice! Left a note with the cashier to give the G.M. with my number. He/she never called, even though it was a polite note, and I assured the cashier I wasn't gonna yell or anything...That about sums up these chains, IMHO.

[Conano]

Wasnt making this a religouse topic, just making a point. and for the record, i'm not a religouse person....

[TheMandarinFish]

this is the Responsible Reefkeeping thread on Reef Central. Keep the conversation about responsible reefkeeping.

But everyone sidetracked from PetCo, which was the point.

Which was my point.

Which was the Mod's point.

So PetCo is justified because they are a corporation, and PETA is the real villian because they promote vegetarianism.

They are the Klan.

Ok.

:rolleyes:

[Flipturn88]

Okay how about this: How about both orginizations are in over there heads...Petco is in it for the money, and PETA, well I guess they want desperately to prove their point.

Personally, I can't agree with the motives/reasonings of either. Sure, everyone wants to make money, but torturing animals (by not caring for them properly...leading to their death) for no legitimate reason and that could be prevented is both wrong and cruel.

Jumping off the deep-end and saying that no one should own pets, and that dogs shouldn't be "man's best friend" is a little bit much for me as well. As stated earlier, there are plenty of organizations that fight against animal cruelty and abuse, but no one hears about them because they don't make it their goal to be THE center of attention...they take a more passive, effective approach.

Again, just my opinion.

[TheMandarinFish]

A better answer than "they're Klansmen."

PETA does good work. Who cares what their philosophy is?

I disagree with Sierra Club sometimes but still respect them.

Power to all groups who look out for animals. All creatures great and small.

[BlindRI]

MnadarinFish,

Couldn't help notice your interests - herb.

Is that - as in "shovel" or "bong"?

[Conano]

Wasnt stating "they are Klansmen". Was Stating that like the "Klan" Peta has lost their way... and forgotten the original values held by it's founders.

Was a bad analigy i guess..... Sorry.

[JHReef]

Originally posted by BlindRI
MnadarinFish,

Couldn't help notice your interests - herb.

Is that - as in "shovel" or "bong"?

Did you read his sig. line? Phish is a wanna-be Greatful Dead type band. I'm thinking he's more into the latter, and not so much the former. Unless he's growin' it too! Probably a little short-term memory issue as well... he goes from peaceful animal organization supporter to a hot-head who wants to "curbstomp" rednecks, then back to "peace" dude. The "supply" :smokin: must not be very constant. But I gotta give him credit for keeping the thread alive...a great entertainment value.

[TheMandarinFish]

I just don't buy any "My tough guy hunter cousin will send them liberals a-runnin' " nonsense.

But the point, as always, is that PetCo sucks. Not how tough hunters think they are.

[duckdeleto]

I read on another message board that Petco is opening some awsome saltwater stores beginning in Cailifornia. Not for or against but AMDA wanted reform and Petco has initiated it. Too bad AMDA imploded into a nonentity rather than an all inclusive powerhouse representing all retail and etail. In my opinion they need new leadership.
I have not seen the new super saltwater stores but they sounded interesting on reef.org as did the negative AMDA controversy. Only mentioned here because AMDA does not like big box and this thread is about Petco.

[TheMandarinFish]

:mad:

The massive exploitation of the reefs, especially with such atrocious carnage, will be that much worse if PetCo gets more into saltwater.

Mark my words - CITES will be bringing the serious restrictions sooner than later. Thanks, in no small part, to PetCo.

It's bad enough they wholesale massacre captive bred small terrestrial creatures.

The more saltwater they have, the worse it is for us. PetCo's untrained HS kids as animal keepers, policy of turn-and-burn animals, idiot managers, bottom line corporate regional managers, etc. are ruining this hobby.

Unethical, unsustainable, unconsionable. Boycott PetCo.

[Flipturn88]

Very true; PETCO won't improve unless their workers are better trained and skilled. There is no way they will be willing to spend the time and money to teach all of their employees proper care and maintenance of reef/saltwater fish tanks...it's just not a priority for them...sad, but true.



BTW, being in High School doesn't always mean you're stupid; I'm a sophmore and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about reefing :).

[TheMandarinFish]

Flipturn88 - I agree. A guy in my reef club is still in HS and has been reefing for years. He rears seahorses.

I got a tank from a family that was moving... it was their son's tank. He explained to me how much he loved inverts, especially nudibranchs.

He had been building a database or what species the obligate-feeding nudibranchs eat. He was 8 years old. He knows more about nudibranchs than anyone I know, including a veteran Kiribasi diver who observed them a lot.

But you guys are the exception. It's not about age. Definitely.

But it is about training. And PetCo doesn't give that.

Sadly, those who work in the fish sections of PetCo aren't informed, and those who are and try to make a difference end up fired.

No kidding.

Boycott PetCo.

[iCam]

BTW, being in High School doesn't always mean you're stupid; I'm a sophmore and I'd like to think I know a thing or two about reefing .

Exactly. I remember walking into the LFS one day, and an older guy was talking to the LFS owner while he bagged the new coral I bought, and the older guy was like "Oh, so you get to pick out the stuff for you mommies tank" and laughed.... Even though my tank is nothing special, it is 50x better than any of the adult's tanks in town :p

I actually only went into a Petco once, but I wasn't amazed at the selection or quality of their livestock.

I've only been in a few times, but I have to say Petsmart seemed like they knew their animals well. We went to the equine section to buy a new english saddle, and the guy and girl working in that section were both riders, that were very knowledgeable and helpful.

[Flipturn88]

I agree; I bought my tank from Petsmart, and even though after I brought it home I noticed a crack in the corner, they were very helpful in replacing it and even reduced the price due to the "inconvenience" (even though I didn't mind). They also did not carry saltwater fish when I went there, and all of their freshwater tanks looked very healthy. I can't speak for the other animals, but I know they don't carry nearly as many critters as Petco (I didn't see any birds, reptiles, rabbits, etc).

Although they are still a chain-store, I don't hear nearly as many complaints about their husbandry and service as I do Petco.

[bronzermike54]

Redneck hunters! We must have the largest population of rednecks in the world, since there are more than several MILLION people who hunt in the U.S. And, lest we all forgot, Ingird Newkirk's A RAT IS A PIG IS A DOG IS A BOY mantra. THERE'S SOME SMART THINKIN' THERE BOYS! (BURP!, Excooose me, jist had to tip my bottle a bit, whoooheee!)

[Flanders]

There goes all rational thought. I feel it leaving me.

[bronzermike54]

I think it's time to deep six this thread, ther's no reason or purpose to it beyond the "nyah nyah, so's your mother" routine. Give it up, if you don't want to shop at a certain store, don't. IF they don't get the biz, they'll dry up.

[saltshop]

Originally posted by bronzermike54
I think it's time to deep six this thread, ther's no reason or purpose to it beyond the "nyah nyah, so's your mother" routine.

Umm...this thread was long dead until you bumped it back up to the top... :rolleyes:

[ghostbear29]

i agree, how do you save pets when you burn down the retail stores with the animals inside, blow up fishing boats in a marine reserve area right above a thousand year old reef. save a tree by nailing spikes inside of it. real bright. this goes to show that the people have too much time on their hands and are jaded by brainwashing and nihlistic behavior. jack asses!!!!

[ghostbear29]

go to school, get a job, raise a intellegent family, spend your hard earned money on a great reef system. hoorah. Capitalism at its best. oh yeah, i eat red meat too!!!!

[trstange]

PETA deliberately acts outragreously, not for symapathy or membership drives, but because they are drawing attention to what they see as important ethical issues.


I think that anyone who targets children with things like the "McCruelty Meal" with a toy of Ronald McDonald holding a bloody butcher knife or the book they were giving to the children of women who wear fur coats should be horse whipped, thrown in jail and sued for every penny they have so they can't afford to do it again.

they talk about cruelty to animals, what about cruelty to children

[GreasyMidget]

lol PETA!

[Kamko]

Don't even get me started on how ridiciolous PETA is. I agree that Petco is one of the worst pet stores, but PETA is worse. Why? They want to totally abolish meat from human consumption, hmmm ok, well what about certain nucleic acids and other important organic compounds that are only available in meats? How does PETA think that humans developed over the centuries? Also I bet that thousands of PETA members are killing/poisoning countless innocent animals by driving their cars, driving nails into trees (which were probably manufactured at a great loss to the environment), etc. - excuse my sarcasm but PETA is so hypocritical.

[TheMandarinFish]

I won't dignify the posts with gross misspellings or random ranting.

Now let's look at the actions of PETA and the actions of PETCO.

WHICH ONE IS GOING TO EXPEDITE CITES CRACKDOWN ON THE HOBBY IN QUESTION ?

Who cares what one theory or philosophy is behind PEOPLE for the ETHICAL TREATMENT of ANIMALS ?

Who cares if they promote vegetarian diets? If you think they're so wrong, go on an all-meat diet. See how long you live.

Your logic "Kamko" is 100% fallacy. You are saying "I bet..." which means you are not discussing facts, especially statistics.

Well, "I bet" that a far higher percentage of PETA members drive hybrids or use public transportation than the general population.

Driving nails into trees? You have no idea what organizations you're even discussing.

I think an ancient redwood would vote for a spike over being cut to a stump, but this isn't about monkeywrenching, which is off-topic anyway.

Before you respond, do your research so you know what groups you are discussing, and come with facts.

I respectfully submit that you seem like someone with intellectual interests, but if you are a student you should do your homework first. Especially a physicist.

Trstrange - What about what McDonalds does in the way of promoting childhood obesity and deforestation? Is trying to show kids that meat comes from animal corpses worse than actually feeding children RBGH, pesticide, herbicide, hormones, antibiotics, fungicide, more pesticide, Mad Cow disease, e-coli, dioxins... the list goes on.

Feeding poison to kids deserves horsewhipping.

Feeding poison to children or telling them where it comes from?

Again, I do not condone every campaign of PETA, and am not a member.

But you cannot accuse them of actions their organization has nothing to do with whatsoever or relatively nonthreatening actions VS what they are up against.

Care to defend the fast food beef industry? Let's start with global warming and it's effects on the coral reefs we are here to discuss first, then work our way back.

So before anyone jumps on the "crazy treehugger wackos" fallacy logic, lets discuss science. Let's discuss CITES. Let's discuss global warming, if you want, since that ties the fast food beef industry directly to our hobby.

Have any of you people bashing PETA spent time actually in reefs? In collection zones? In no-catch zones? In equatorial reefs where global warming is causing epic bleaching?

Let's discuss the ethics of PetCo now, and what the result of their practices will be on *YOUR* hobby.... specifically mortality rates, declining ornamental fish stocks, CITES, and PetCo's record with live animal care.

[trstange]

TheMandarinFish

I stand by my post, ANYONE who targets children in the manor PETA does should be horsewhipped, thrown in jail and sued for every penny they have.

[Kamko]

I respect you criticizing my post, as I like to exchange opinions, now let's get back to our discussion. You want facts or stats? I haven't seen you providing any stats to back your argument.
Quote: "Your logic "Kamko" is 100% fallacy." - Is that a fact according to you or just a poor hyperbole? No problem I'll get some from my stats teacher, but for now suffice to say manufacturing hybrid cars actually puts environment at a greater stake (something to do with the second law of thermodynamics by any chance?) Next, considering the prices of hybrid cars it is unlikely that the population of PETA members should have a higher proportion of people who drive eco-cars. Don't try to tell me that PETA members don't drive cars, I can bet on that one. My logic in this argument holds (unless you have stats that say otherwise). Regarding quality of meat, that's side-steping my argument, the fact is certain nucleic acids can only be obtained from meats. The only reason humans were able to evolve into intelligent beings was by eating high-calorie meats, whcih enabled for further development of the brain.
Again, I'm by no means supporting PetCo, I was just pointing out discrepancies in PETA's actions and philosophy.

FYI, thank you for a complement, but I'm not a physicict (that's my just my hobby, although I would love to double-major in it), next year I'm hoping to get into a med-school.

[TheMandarinFish]

trstange - a manor is a house (:D ), and I maintain that ANYONE who targets children the way McDonalds does "should be horsewhipped, thrown in jail and sued for every penny they have"

Kamko - people can rally and organize for whatever they believe in, and the fact they require transportation does not negate their contributions, efforts, philosophies, etc.

Sooooo if you're trying to say they can't have a point of view because they need to get from Point A to Point B and live in a country under the fist of oil barons, I don't buy it.

As for "human evolution," I still maintain that a no-meat diet beats an all-meat diet and if you want to test it, let's make a bet on who lives longer.

I know plenty of absolutely brilliant vegetarians, people who are, in all measures, intellectually and physically equivalent to anyone who eats animals.

If it's so necessary, I think you need to make that case to the top endurance athletes in the world, as many of the most competitive don't consume animal flesh.

Humans also went through the Bronze Age to get where we are today, but that doesn't mean you need to go around wearing the stuff.

PS no one is discussing CITES here. Let me get you started, so we understand what is happening - http://www.animalforum.com/freefreg.htm

In the interest of intelligent conversation, stay on task - what PetCo is doing to the hobby, what the future holds, and why animal rights organizations (countless of them, PETA is only one - get over PETA) work hard against PetCo.

[Kamko]

I never said that PETA had no rights to organize or rally.

I believe you misunderstood me mandarin. I did not state that eating meats will make you live longer. I stated that eating meats was a necessary evolutionary step for humans to develop larger cerebral cortex.

I'm not sure so I will ask, is PETA against drug testing on animals as well?

[wtrhed]

Oh boy!! I do love a good "curbstomping". Mandarinfish, how's this for redneck "if it flies it dies" or "If it's brown it's down". You probably liked those huh? What are we ever going to do with all these hippies??? Any hunter/fisherman have WAY more ethics than any of those PETA freaks. Anyone that would put an animals life before a humans is just off in the head!

[trstange]

yes I spelled a word wrong, guess that makes your rant correct...
or does that just make you arrogant...

[Flanders]

Have any of you people bashing PETA spent time actually in reefs? In collection zones? In no-catch zones? In equatorial reefs where global warming is causing epic bleaching?

TheMandarinFish, I fail to see in your own posts (which are filled with ranting by the way) what PETA has done for the reefs. Or for global warming. I guess you're too busy being arrogant and critical of everyone who isn't as smart as you.

I'm not sure so I will ask, is PETA against drug testing on animals as well

Yes, in fact the former head of PETA was quoted as saying that animal testing isn't necessary because people bring all diseases on themselves and if you're stupid enough to get a disease you should deal with it. He definitely deserves to get some form of incurable cancer IMO.

[JHReef]

I thought this thread would die but...I gotta say this:

Mandrinfish...I know your heart is in the right place, but nitpicking people by pointing out spelling errors, accusing them of not having any grounds to their opinions, and misquoting them in a condescending way is going to do very little in the way of promoting an "on topic" discussion. Don't you think? (oops, a run-on sentence, followed by a fragment)
I think, and others may agree, that your posts are on the verge of fanatical. If you want people to take you seriously, maybe you should put your little red marker down, quit grading people, and make some VALID points of your own.
BTW, you note that you are a teacher. I hope you don't try and force your point of view on young minds. You sure wouldn't want to be my child's teacher if I found that out...you ain't even seen any curbstompin'.

Y'all have a real nice day, I know I will, gonna grill me some meat tonight....yeeeeehaaaaaawww!:thumbsup:

[trstange]

Originally posted by JHReef
.

Y'all have a real nice day, I know I will, gonna grill me some meat tonight....yeeeeehaaaaaawww!:thumbsup:

Is it a big juicy t-bone , what time should I be there?

[j.stagner]

Originally posted by TheMandarinFish

Sadly, those who work in the fish sections of PetCo aren't informed, and those who are and try to make a difference end up fired.

No kidding.



This statement is perhaps just a little too broadly applied. I used to work at Petco (and a few other LFS at other times), and was far from uninformed. Although I've never seen anyone fired from Petco for trying to make a difference, I've seen them fired for being totally inept. If you have information to the contrary I would be particularly interested in seeing it (no sarcasm here).

It was far more likely for those who were well informed and wanted things to change to become completely dissatisfied with their job and move on. You can only hit your head on a brick wall so many times before you decide it's better to just stop.

Now, having said that, you must realize that for a while I *ran* the fish department. I had complete control over inventory, and total ownership of the stocking and maintenance of the reef display tanks. I tried to educate customers, recommend books, groups, and even other stores. I even refused to sell livestock on several occasions. But since my sales were always high, I got away with it.

I realize that this isolated case only proves some of your points, I just want to point out that Petco is like *any* of the large chain stores. The bean-counters and managers simply don't care. Nowhere was it written in the Petco guidelines that you can't care. I think these problems are unfortunately shared by many other companies.

As for PETA, many of their ads make me laugh, some make me think, most make me very irritated. I simply can't stand the over-the-top antics of any group, even one with as noble a purpose as PETA. I often wonder if they would find a more receptive audience if they presented less biased, but nevertheless true, information without the drama.

$0.02+

[mellen]

http://www.sparedollar.com/viewpic.asp?imgurl=http://members.sparedollar.com/paulak1/mick3.jpg

I offer you this Pipe of Peace, O great Mandarinfish! (jk...):rollface:

[saltshop]

This thread outlived its usefulness long ago....