The heater did it!

[kev-dog1]

I just wanted to thank everyone for holding my hand last night when I was in crisis mode (see HELP I think I have a problem), especially fishdoc11 and foggy54...you're advice was invaluable and helped to put my wife at ease too.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again...this forum rocks!

It turns out when I did my spring cleaning of powerheads last Sunday, I must've somehow loosened or broken the seal of the top/cap of the heater a bit, and it consequently filled with water causing the stray voltage in the tank and tripping my gfi breaker.

Needless to say that heater is history. I've replaced it and also performed a water change to the tune of 15g on my 38g FOWLR. Also vac'd up all the dead worms and critters that were piling up.

When I left the house a few hours ago, most of the fish were hiding deep within the rocks...except for the damsel - nothing can hurt a damsel.

The Fiji Puffer looked extremely stressed early this morning, and I couldn't find him at all during or shortly after the water change, but I'm hoping he'll make it .

I'll keep an eye on amonia and other params and keep my fingers crossed.

What do you think will be the short and long term effects on my tank: Sand bed, Live rock, Fish?

Thanks again everyone!
Kev

[SRA4031]

Glad everything worked out with that. I was actually about to ask how it went.

[foggy54]

KEV. Just like Prince William Sound, you won't be able to bring back whats gone, but hopefully i't won't cost anywhere's near the amount Exxon had to spend, to get it looking good again.

[fishdoc11]

I'm glad you got it figured out. All I know is to hope for the best and keep an eye on it. If your ammonia starts to spike you will know stuff is starting to die off. If it stays zero I would think that's a good sign. It probably would'nt hurt to have some xtra seawater sitting around.
Chris

[kev-dog1]

Unfortunately the Fiji Puffer is no longer. I've also lost all snails and crabs.
The maroon clown seems to be okay, only a bit more "shy" than usual.
The trigger is still hiding deep within the LR, but in a diifferent spot now than last night, so I'm encouraged by that.
And the LR seems "paler", or maybe that's my imagination.

Yes I will get more water today so I'm ready for another water change.

[kev-dog1]

Okay MAJOR Amonia spike
What's next?

[fishdoc11]

Alot of large water changes. I hate to say it but that's the best thing to do. How high is your ammonia?

[fishdoc11]

Other things to consider are setting up another smaller tank for the fish using 1/2 water from your reef and 1/2 new water along with a seasoned filter off of one of your tanks. If you have to leave them in the tank you might have to resort to using something like Prime from Seachem to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite that is soon to follow in addition to the large water changes. You also might call the Critter and/or Ebay to ask if they could hold your fish and just letting the tank cycle again. That would probably be the easiest thing to do but you allways run the risk of the fish getting sick in one of their systems(you actually rum the risk of them getting sick anyway because of the stress they have been thru). I know it sucks. Try to keep your head up. You might age a few years but you will learn alot from this.
Chris

[SRA4031]

I have a 10 gal tank I could loan you to use as a holding tank if you need it. I may be able to pump out some water also to put in it as well. I do not have a filter or light for it though.

I know this will not hold much, but you are welcome to borrow it if you need too.

[kev-dog1]

Amonia is off the scale, using a Instant Ocean fasTest, the scale goes up to 0.8 and it's darker green than the scale.

10 gallon tank...can do
seasoned filter...??
The only thing I can do is take the Remora off that tank, but then there is nothing there to run on that tank will it cycles. Shouldn't I leave it on the cycling tank?

If I do do this, Am I to use any of this tanks water in setting up this temp holding tank?
What about live Rock? I'm assuming my LR is what is dying off?
If I got a small chunk of "cured" LR for this 10g from AC or EB, would this just cause another cycle in itself?

The Prime from Seachem...what does that do?

[Sir Knight]

If I got a small chunk of "cured" LR for this 10g from AC or EB, would this just cause another cycle in itself?

This will work and what you will have is a cycled tank setup. Get a least 10 lbs.
I would go to say EB. I know they have reef tanks setup, ask them to give you live rock out of one of these setups and if possible transport the rock in water. This way you know the rock is cycled

As far as taking the skimmer off of your main tank I would not recommend doing that, you need to export nutrients

[SRA4031]

Do not have a filter for you. Like I said I can pump out some of my water, maybe five gals, you can add about 2 gals of new water, and then with the LR you get should top it off.

Have you taken out all your rock from your tank. You are right, the LR dying off can hit that spike, plus anything else you have hidden, i.e. snails, crabs. When you have a massive die off like that you need to start hunting.

I assume what the main cause in the ammonia spike is the electrical surges you had for over 24 hours has killed off your bacteria, so you are pretty much starting over on this.

Can anyone advise if he can get ahold of at least 25 gal from our tanks, and do a water transfusion will that help replenish his bacteria he needs. Like I said I can pump 5 gals from my tank, I checked my levels before I suggested this route, and we can meet Kevin somewhere, or he can come to us. Will this work?

[Sir Knight]

Can anyone advise if he can get ahold of at least 25 gal from our tanks, and do a water transfusion will that help replenish his bacteria he needs. Like I said I can pump 5 gals from my tank, I checked my levels before I suggested this route, and we can meet Kevin somewhere, or he can come to us. Will this work

This will not really help There isn't enough bacteria in the water column. What I would do is move the livestock out of that tank. If the ammonia is off the scale it will kill the fish and could also kill anything else in the tank.

Then I would take the live rock out of the tank check to make sure there isn't anything else dead in the tank or dying in the rock, Put the live rock back in the tank, do a 50% water change and start all over.

[kev-dog1]

Do I need any kind of mechanical filtration on this temp tank?

And I notice no one has said any more about the Prime from Seachem...is this a bad idea?

[kev-dog1]

Am I only checking for dead critters on my LR, then replacing it in the tank?
Or am I tossing out this LR and starting over?

[SRA4031]

If you can come by smyrna to get that 10 gal give me a call, I will PM you the number. My cable has been cutting out, which I have cable internet. The tech will be hear today, but do not know when, so I am stuck here right now.

[SRA4031]

I was talking about the transfusion to accelarate the re cycling, not to instantly solve the problem. Sorry for mis-wording

[Sir Knight]

Do I need any kind of mechanical filtration on this temp tank?
If you are talking about the temp tank, No. If you put in the Live rock (new rock that you buy) the only other thing you need is at minimum a power head for water movement and Heater. I would also recommend a skimmer. If that is not possible do daily 10% water changes.

If you are talking about the old tank again I'd say no.

notice no one has said any more about the Prime from Seachem...is this a bad idea I don't know what this is.

Am I only checking for dead critters on my LR, then replacing it in the tank?

On both the live rock and in the tank itself.


am I tossing out this LR and starting over?

You are really starting over but you can use the same live rock. I don't see any reason to toss the old live rock.

[Sir Knight]

Old Live rock.
The only reason to do this is if it was contaminated in some way or you want this tank up and running immediately. Then go out and buy fully cured live rock locally. I wouldn't go this route

[kev-dog1]

Here's my dilemma: We are planning on recarpeting the house fairly soon, so this tank (and it's brother the reef 55g) will be torn down to acoomplish this re-carpeting. (Considering getting a 75g for the reef when I set the reef back up after the new carpet)
So I'm wondering if this is just fate giving me the push to begin this whole process.
I'm probably gonna move this 38 to the lobby of at my work in this process.
So perhaps I should just try to find the trigger and maroon clown a home.
But I would feel guilty giving someone a sick fish.
I'm wrestling with this 'what to do' issue.

to confound everything, I've got two commitments tonight and all day tomorrow, so this is really bad timing.

I think I'm gonna set-up a small temp tank to try to save the fish. If they make it, I'll either trade them or keep them for after this tank is moved.

Should I use any of this old water in the new temp tank or take some from the 55g reef?

[SRA4031]

Let me know how I can help. If you need to lose anything, I will give it a home, or hold it till you get set back up. Like I said, I do have the lighting issue, but I can keep high light coral alive with the Triton directly on it.

[Sir Knight]

When you say old tank do you mean the tank that crashed? if so No, The water is not in any shape. If the reef tank is stable use some of that water (50%) and 50% new. Just acclimate the fish slowly (1 to 2 hours min) to the new tank and water. Start the fish in the old water in a bucket and start adding new. When I say new I mean the final water mix in the temp tank. Sorry you know how to acclimate

[kev-dog1]

Okay I decided the best thing for the fish was to put them up at AC for a while. (Thankyou Wes) Considering the stress they've been thru this week, it just didn't seem a good idea to put them in a small tank.
I'm gonna consider this whole event is fate tellling me to move forward with the recarpeting project. And at the same time probably move this tank to the office.

Thanks again to all for your support during this stressful event.

Question: Will this LR and sand bed make a complete recovery? If I do move this tank and set it up again, should I use this stuff or start over completely?
In general, does LR have a shelf-life? Or is it functional/beneficial forever?

[Sir Knight]

In general, does LR have a shelf-life? Or is it functional/beneficial forever?

Live rock IMO doesn't have a shelf life as long as you keep debris off of it, keep it in water, have circulation, keep temperature in check, add some light and I know this is going to sound funny but feed it. If you don't want to keep it in the tank just get one of those tuffy rubbermaid garbage cans, put the rock in it with saltwater, a power head, heater and maybe light and you are set. This will have an advantage of letting it cycle again. When your ready to use it move it to your new setup and your tank is cycled.

As far as the sand bed, I would just start over. It isn't that much and it will take a lot of work to clean it.

[fishdoc11]

Sounds like you've got a plan Kevdog. Just to clarify, the prime supposedly detoxifies ammonia. I suggested that before I knew how high your ammonia was and am not even sure if it would work well, more as a last resort than anything.
Chris