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View Full Version : weird bug has killed 4 fish


freelancing
08/20/2001, 07:19 PM
About 5 months ago I had a 3.5" (nearly full grown) fingerpint puffer. Had him for about a month and he was doing great. He stopped eating one day, but looked at the food and watched the other fish eating away.

The next day he hid under mini cave in the rock and wouldn't come out. Finally he was bobbing near the filter and I thought he was dead. I came to get a net and he was gone... then I saw him laying in the substrate, gasping for air and I watched him die what seemed to be a horrendous death for about an hour. Is there a way to euthanize a fish that is in agony?

I am new to the hobby and I figured there was just something wrong with him... cancer, gout, heck, I don't know anything... at least I'm learning.

I then got a saddle valentini puffer to replace him. A couple of months ago, both the saddle valentini puffer and a red spotted hawkfish stopped eating. I finally pulled my head out of my rear end and set up a hospital tank (and no, I didn't wait for it to cycle... didn't know anything about that stuff).

By the time the tank was set up for 24 hours, the puffer had died the same way the first one did.

The hawkfish still hung in there and I had to take every freakin' rock out of my 140gal tank to net that little !@$~# fish to put him in the hospital tank. The puffers showed no external signs of illness other than not eating and then hiding. The hawkfish was not only not eating, but his mouth hung open and there was a red sore in his mouth.

I started dosing the 10gal. hospital tank w/ pennicillin (sp?) and the red spot and lump started to go away. Just about then, one of my pumps in the big tank went out and my chemistry was awful, so I kept the hawkfish in the hospital.

Hospital was set up w/ 2" SB... sand borrowed from existing tank to help w/ good bacteria. Just a bio wheel on that tank. I did 50% water changes a day after each dosing to clean the water and he seemed to really be doing well.

Then his lips got red, so I started dosing again, trying Hex-a-mit. Sores went away and I patted myself on the back. Two weeks later, his gills and pectoral fins started turning red (bloody red) so I tried Neomycin (recommended by a vet). All medicines acquired from the LFS and all were water soluble and I followed dosing instructions. This time he didn't make it and after 2 months of dosing and water changes, he died 2 days ago.

About a month into his stay in the hospital tank, I noticed that my Margintine Damsel had a dark spot on her side (the margintine damsel is white w/ black eyes and black fins) that looked like it was a lesion just under her scales.

Since the red spotted hawkfish was about 7 years old and a more valuable fish, I didn't want to put her in the tank with him and possible introduce a new variable. She continued to eat healthy, but died after about a month of having this spot on her side. Cancer? I have no freakin' clue.

I am new to the hobby since March and it's been baptism by fire. Despite a few fatalities here and there, I've got a good group of hearty fish right now and I'd like to keep it that way.

Two mated clowns are about 7 yrs old (I bought the tank used and the woman who owned the tank had had the tank and the 2 clowns and hawkfish for 7 years) and the rest are aquisitions from about 5 months ago and going strong.

I first thought the fatalities were related because the valentini puffer and the redspotted hawkfish both stopped eating on the same day... but I guess it could be a coincedence.

While it's defeating to spend money on fish, equip, etc. only to see bobbing corpses, I hate killing animals that were fine before I put my mits on them and I don't want to add to the suffering of any of these animals, but to make them as happy as can be in captivity.

My tank has corals and some inverts (hitchhiker nudibranch, etc.) so I can't dose the entire tank, nor would I want to do mega water changes on a tank this big (I don't have an RO filter yet).

Thanks in advance for any diagnosis you can offer regarding my 4 somewhat recent losses.

billsreef
08/21/2001, 07:37 AM
What are/were your tank parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, salinity and temp.?

How long after you added those new fish did you start having these problems?

freelancing
08/21/2001, 10:33 AM
I have to admit my ignorance in much (if not all) of tank chemistry. I take my water in about once a week (sometimes I only make it once in 2 weeks) to DNA (www.dallasnorthaquarium.com) to have them test it. They've alerted me when nitrates or ammonia, etc. are high. For the most part, my water is almost always near perfect w/ the exception for the need for normal water changes.

Fingerprint Puffer - had him about 6 weeks before he manifested symptoms, 4 days later he was dead.
http://www.freelancing.com/reef/images/canthigaster_valentini.jpg
Saddle Valentini puffer - same story

Margintine Damsel - had her about 10 weeks when spot showed up on her side. She was fine for another 4 weeks and was still eating the day before I found her on the substrate. Arrow crab and others had pretty much eaten most of her remains with the exception of the eyes, black fins and the mysterious spot.

Red spotted hawkfish - I bought the tank in March and this fish was one of three (the other 2 are mated false perc. clowns) that came w/ the tank. The woman who I bought the tank from had had the tank and these 3 fish for over 7 years.

I moved the 140 gal of tank water via plastic trash cans (well, I lost about 20gal on the highway) so they wouldn't be too shocked when the tank was installed. After the tank was moved and the water put back in, I let the stuff settle for about 2 days before putting the 3 fish back in the tank. A few days later I did a 40gal water change to help weed out the filth. This person had a family member w/ a lengthy illness and the person eventually died. During this time, the tank was totally neglected except for a daily feeding... all tank inhabitants died except for these 3 hearty fish. They survived the move very well and ate immediately whenever food was introduced. I was beginning to think that nothing could kill these fish. Considering that the hawk was battling these red splotch outbreaks for over 2 months says a lot about his immune system and his fighting spirit.

I'd like to get another hawk fish (probably a flame hawk), but not if there is some parasite or bacteria that a hawk would be suseptible to. I don't know what the normal life expectancy is of a red spotted hawkfish... perhaps 7 years is already geriatric for such a fish, or maybe he was just a kid. I have no clue. The fact that both he and the puffer stopped eating on the same day is what really raised my eyebrows.

The puffers were both canthegasser types (don't get over 4") and they both had the tapered mouths that only opened when they were eating. If they had had sores on the inside of their mouths, I would not have been able to see them. Even when feeding, the puffers' mouths were very tiny and didn't open very wide.

http://www.freelancing.com/reef/images/amblycirrhitus_pinos.jpg

billsreef
08/22/2001, 07:17 PM
Sounds like you probably introduced some disease with the new additions. I would suggest leaving things run for awhile without adding any new fish. When everything seems to be fine after a couple of months then set up a quarantine tank and place any new fish you get in there for 4-6 weeks before adding them to your tank.

BTW there is an active marine aquarium society in the Dallas Fort Worth area, you might want to check into it. Both Eric Borneman and James Wiseman(Reefs.org) are members and can probably give the info.

freelancing
08/22/2001, 07:53 PM
Thanks for the info & tips. Any idea what kind of cooties the "new" fish could have been carrying? They were in my tank for over a month before getting ill.

I have been (until 3 days ago) feeding my greenbird wrasse 3-5 live feeder guppies a day. I posted another thread about him eating my purple pseudocrhomis and found out about the dangers of feeding fresh water fish to marine life.

Is it possible that the freshwater fish could transmit cooties to the marine fish? The folks at DNA who told me to feed my wrasse the rosy reds, etc. said that the freshwater fish version of Ich (as other cooties) didn't transmutate to the marine critters. Considering the line of b.s. they've apparently been feeding me over a number of issues, there's no telling what kind of lies I've accepted as the truth so far.

I've learned my lesson... trust those who don't have a vested interest in my wallet.

As far as the DFWMAS, thanks for the info. I attended my first meeting last week (where I won the purple psuedochromis that my wrasse ate *grunt*). :-)

You are right - great group of folks full of info. I thought I'd try this board first, however, since it is dedicated to fish diseases instead of focusing just on a certain area of geography.

Thanks again for your reponses.

billsreef
08/23/2001, 07:53 AM
There are numerous diseases that can exist at low (sub clinical) levels for several weeks before getting the upper hand over the fishes immune system. Also the ability of an aquarist to spot the signs of some of these comes with time and experience.

This is one of the reasons I always recommend that people use Q tanks for all new acquisitions for several weeks. It really cuts down if not outright eliminates problems such as you experienced. Also if the fish does turn out to have something, it is much easier to treat using the most effective methods in the smaller tank.

freelancing
08/23/2001, 10:55 AM
Gotcha. Thanks for the tips.

Currently, my hospital tank has no occupants (as my Hawkfish died last Friday). I need to do at least a 50% water change to get rid of residual antibiotics, un-eated food, etc. and to elmininate ammonia, et al.

While I am planning on getting another Hawkfish and I will no doubt quaranteen him in that tank as per your suggestions, should I have another fish in there (like a cheap damsel) to keep up the biological balance when the tank is not otherwise occupied?

Again, I'm still very ignorant of tank chemistry, filters, et al and typically conversations on this topic fly right over my head.

Thanks.