Great Meeting!

[rcmike]

Hello everyone,

I am glad I made it tonight to the meeting. I was surprised the club is so big so fast. I think we are off to a great start. It is nice to finally put the faces with the names(although there are so many that I get confused). Can't wait till next month.

[Countzer0]

Yeah it was good to meet you and your wonderfull family. I am glad you made it safely back to Dickson. It was a lot of fun. Thanks to Shawn and Robert for all their hard work! Doc thanks for the fragging tips. I can't wait till next month.

[A. Critter Killer]

Things did go great (Except for that little halide mishap, lol). Great turnout!! If things keep progressing this way, I will not be abole to keep buying cheese dip for the group :) ! Anyway, had a great time...it's 12:30ish, and I am just getting home!! Can't wait 'till next month. ----Sean

[foggy54]

I just want everyone to know how lucky I feel to be a part of the meeting tonite. Can't remember when the last time I met so many friendly people. thanks to everyone that made it possibe. 02:03 a.m. time to sign off. john

[aquaman67]

Well, it's 5:51 am and I'm at work!

I enjoyed meeting everyone and had a good time. By the time I got my frags in, I only got a couple hours sleep, but it was worth it! I hope to talk to more people next time, maybe we need name tags or something, just for a while?

[Oldschooler]

Yeah, it was LATE by the time I got home, so I couldn't post, but...

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Makes me sad I missed the first meeting! If this DOES get much bigger anytime soon, we're gonna have to come up with some other quarters, QUICK!

And I wondered where the cheese dip came from (seemingly out of no-where). Thanks, Sean!

Thanks 'doc and 'reefing for sharing your knowledge, and thanks everyone for coming! I had a great time! Eric, I still owe you a beer or two. ;)

And KevLouie- Good call on the sweeper tentacles. We wouldn't have caught that until it was too late!

~Roberto

[Oldschooler]

Hey, Aquaman, we *did* think of nametags, but had problems with our label-maker that we didn't feel we should take the time to address. People started filling up FAST. So, we ditched that idea. NEXT time, we'll have a bunch of those oh-so-gay, yet oh-so-practical "Hello! My name is:" tags!!! LOL

I REALLY wanted to make name/nic tags, because a LOT of the new guys were asking me who everyone was, and I had to give 'em names AND usernics, so I think it blew a couple of their minds! LOL

Also, as long as I hear no objections, I am going to work on a contact list so we can all keep in touch, no matter what happens. I may even get a digital camera and make tiny thumbnails of the club-members' faces so as the club grows, we can learn FACES to go with names, nics, etc. I'll start another thread soon asking if anyone objects to their info being used on a contact form such as this...

~Roberto

[reewik]

I had a great times as well. Everyone was great! I did not even get off my flat spot to meet everyone, shame on me!!! I llok forward to future meeting and future trades. I will have some Mike Paletta Blue to frag in about 6 months ...lol!

Sean,

That halide thing was no real big deal. Next time i come they will be hung?

Oldschooler,

No big deal one was good for me. I might take you up on that next time ...lol

RCmike,

Thanks for the Devils hand!

Coralreefer,

Nice trade , you were to generous!

Sean and Robert,

Thanks for making this happen and thanks a ton for the frag!

P.S> Sean I took that clam!!!

[rcmike]

Well shoot. I went down to turn on my lights a little early to see how everything was doing and I noticed a little "ding" noise. One of my MH lights didn't come on and when I went to see if it was screwed in all the way it broke in half! Must have cracked somehow when I turned it on. That bulb always made a funny noise when it was starting up.

[reewik]

That stinks. I can get you the info for where I ordered my 10,000 k XM bulb if you like? I paid $60 or $65 w/ shipping!

[rcmike]

Thanks but I already got one on the way. Looks kinda dark with only the VHO's on. Maybe a big storm is coming over the reef for a couple of days! Actually I had been thinking of turning the lights out for a couple of days to hopefully get rid of some of the hair algae that is still hanging on.

[fishdoc11]

Hey everybody,
It was great to put faces with the handles ( the names might take awhile ) and to see everybody from the last meeting again. It's so cool to be able to talk reefs with people who are as passionate about them as I am. For the longest time I just talked to my self lol! What a great turnout, I must say I never expected that many people and was very pleasantly suprised. That sucks about your bulb rcmike. Hope the weather clears up in a couple of days.
thanks guys and gals, Chris

[gflat65]

Last night was great. It was incredible being around so many reefers. This is a great start to greater things. It's nice to be able to see a face when I read a comment. Roberto and Sean- you guys hosted a heckuva show. Who would have thought someone could do that with a lemon! The frags look great. If you guys need any kind of help in organization, let me know. Can't wait til next month.

[kevlouie]

Wow. I had no idea so many cool people had the same addiction I did. To say say the meeting went well would be an understatement, Thanks so much to everybody who brought me some sand. Can't wait for the next meeting. Luckily the store's open in the meantime.

[coralreefing]

Great meeting everyone, I too am glad to start putting names & faces together. Thanks to Sean & Rob for organizing us. Hope everyones frags are doing well.

Chris

[aquaman67]

Speaking of the frags...

Ok, I'm new to SPS, so go easy on me.

I got two frags...I found info on the Montipora capricornis that fishdoc11 gave me. But I'm having trouble finding info on what was referred to as the 'elkshorn'. There are several corals that use that common name and I can't seem to find info on the one that looks like the one we cut. I wasn't the tumble weed looking coral we cut first. It looks like a brown sea fan shaped coral.

Does anyone have an idea what it is? I just like to know what's in my tank...

[fishdoc11]

I've allways seen it listed as an elkhorn Montipora. The ones Ebay has are listed as that as are ORA's version. I think that's what Garf calls it too. I can't find it in any of my books either.
Chris

[reewik]

http://www.thereeftank.com/photopost/data/506/153elkmonti.JPG

This may be it....

Elkhorn Montipora Hirsuta

[Oldschooler]

Eric is correct. I thought it was "hinsuta", as opposed to "hirsuta", but either way Eric is very close or very correct.

One of the main reasons Sean chose that species is because it fragments very easily and as fishdoc mentioned, it is very hardy (aren't all of the Montiporas?). It may be unusual to some, but to us it is NOT rare, so we chose it. We HOPE to obtain something RARE by the next meeting.

Of course, there's a WHOLE LOT of stuff out there that's cool and available, but doesn't frag or acclimate well...

[Oldschooler]

OH, and great shot, Eric!

[reewik]

Just give fish doc a piece of scrap rock, you will probaby get a frag within a week. lol.. Had to do it Chris!!!

Sean and Robert,

Did you hang those lights over the 90 yet? And how is that clam doing?

[Oldschooler]

I know I'm going to be unpopular for this post, but heck, I wasn't THAT popular with most of you, anyway...

We will NOT be hanging any halides over that tank as long as I'm running the shop. Wait- before I'm accused of being a self-important TYRANT, please listen...

...I've used halides before. They get hot. Very. I've also run this store since LAST December. Summers in my shop are very hot. Very. The afternoon sun alone out-strips our current A/C. This was the case LAST summer, before we put in all the P/Cs. Now, imagine if you will, a good 90+ degree day, thirty people in the store (like on a saturday), and even ONE halide running.

Now granted, some day we will put in a new system that will handle whatever we throw at it. But for now, PLEASE remember we've ONLY BEEN EMERALD BAY for about nine months!!!! We've come such a long way- which is good- that we're forever being held to some crazy standard that we just shouldn't be even CLOSE to being held to! :)

While Eric and Wooglin are correct that the tank may or may not look better with them (it certainly looks DIFFERENT), not ALL of the creatures within would do "better" as is inferred. The gorgonians, for one, would have to come out. Other animals, such as the mushrooms, would lose even more color under intense lighting. Also, with the sun already coming through the front glass for many hours a day, I'm thinking some of you are getting a slanted perspective on how much light ALREADY actually reaches that tank.

Anyway, long story short, it is fun to think about, and Sean really wants to do it, but I just cannot allow the corals to COMPLETELY over-run everything else. Believe it or not, we DO sell things OTHER than corals! ;))) That, and we just don't have an A/C to handle the heat that I know is coming. Heck, is WINTER ever gonna get here??? :)


~Roberto

[fishdoc11]

Sounds like Roberts getting hot flashes LOL!!! Fishdoc elbows roberto in ribs........

[Countzer0]

wouldn't want to donate them to a worthy cause nod nod wink wink!

[Mimi]

Hey All,

I feel bad missing out on a great meeting! :( But at least I skiied a bit and got to see the cool aquarium in Gatlinburg!! :fish1:

I can't wait till the next meeting.....maybe I'll come up with something fun to do with the nametag thing!

:smurf:

Mimi

PS- See...I used the smurf smiley!!

[reewik]

Hey Robert ,

So what, no halides. I ran a 75 on 4 vho bulbs years ago and some of you saw those pics. I just think they look gggggggreat! (Tony the tiger..hehe)

Just remember those clams demand a ton of light. Do your ribs hurt...:O)

[A. Critter Killer]

The smurf smiley is cool, but I like this one : :uzi:

[Oldschooler]

*hard to type because ribs are sore* LOL

For the record, I have no idea who brought the halides or if they were donated, bought, traded for, etc. And I apologise if I have inadvertently offended anyone. I'm prone to that. All I am saying is, Sean gets excited (like the rest of us, really), and sometimes does things he's not *exactly* authorised to do. I thought this might be one of those cases. Sean knows more than me (for the moment ;) ) about reefkeeping, but as I've pointed out to others in other posts, ALL of us know SOMETHING that the others don't, which makes us all valuable. I happen to know how hot a single halide makes a 2,200 sq. ft. store on a spring/summer day. :)

If a halide was "donated", which I didn't know, then I will certainly set about making that situation right. I'm not out to make anyone upset. I just cannot let the "club" interfere with the store beyond what we are capable of allowing. If making the coral people happy at the expense of the freshwater, snake, fish-only salt customers, etc. UNHAPPY, then I have to do my job and curtail whatever it is so that we can maintain a balance. THAT is another reason why I've INSISTED that EVERYONE understand that EBAY is NOT "the club". We help by sponsoring it, in a sense (speaking of which, I have another thread coming up about SPONSORSHIPS!), and we can contribute in other ways, but *we* are not *it*. Hope this post helps rather than causes more confusion!

~Roberto

[Oldschooler]

Oh, and one more thought about halides...

Also for the record: I don't have anything against halides. I think they are probably the best choice for people wishing to keep and grow HIGH LIGHT demanding animals, or people with truly HUGE tanks. However, the current trend in reefkeeping, which is to slap halides on any tank that won't melt under them, IMO, is wrong. I have complete newbies come into the store asking how to begin and they will say "I know the FIRST thing I need to do is get some metal halides!" To which I reply, "Oh, really? What animals will you be keeping?" They usually respond with "oh, you know, Mushrooms, these polyps here, maybe a leather, some of these (points to an animal that is low or medium light-requiring)..."

NOT EVERY SITUATION REQUIRES METAL HALIDES is all I'm trying to say. :)

[Oldschooler]

Mimi, yes, you missed one heckuva... REALLY hope you make the next one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aquaman67]

The one I'm talking about looks more flat...that looks more like the tumble weed...

[Oldschooler]

The other coral was Hydnophora grandis.

[fishdoc11]

aquaman,
If I'm not mistaken you took home an elkhorn Montipora(branched) and a Montipora Capricornis(flat).
Chris
Robert,
You are correct about keeping softies. They will do just fine under NO, PC's, VHO's etc...(especially mushrooms) I think the reason people mentioned the Halides for your front tank is that the majority of organisms you have in there will do much better under halides. I have seen people use VHO's with great success on sps tanks, sometimes with better color and allways with slower growth rates, but not on tanks as deep as your front tank. I have seen a few sps kept under PC's in nano tanks but you need to have 6-9 watts per gallon minimum to keep any color as opposed to maybe 4 watts per gallon in a tank lit by Halides, you also have to put them right under the light source. Unfortunately most sps will just hang on and brown out under PC's. Maxima and Crocea clams should ONLY be kept under MH ( even keeping them for short periods under less light will stress them according to the literature ). Deresa's and squamosa's will survive under higher wattage ( 5-8 watts a gallon) flouresent tanks but MH is recommended by all experts for all clams. Heat is definately an issue when it comes to using MH but that's just the way it is. I don't think anyone is trying to offend, just to kindly offer that MH is the best, and most would contend the only, lighting source for your front tank considering the organisms you have chosen to put in it and its depth.
thanks, Chris

[aquaman67]

Fishdoc11,

I think you are right about my frags...

Just to keep my tired mind straight, what was that tumble weed looking coral, that was half dead, the first one you cut called?

[fishdoc11]

I have to correct myself. Coralreefing has a deep tank and just under 5 watts a gallon under pc's and vho's and he keeps sps that look great(these sps are mostly adapted to low light though as most of them came from garf and they use vho's). Note that he also has vho and is the exception to the rule. Wooglin also kept some sps under pc's, but alot of wattage. Some sps will grow and be ok under pc's I've just seen too many of them brown out, including in my own tank before I got MH. Heck I even keep a few Montiporas I dont have room for in my 75 in my 55 under NO and PC(5.45 w/g) but they don't do nearly as well as the ones in my 75. I would say you would need over 4.5 watts a gallon to have a chance at long term success though, preferably more. Once again I don't mean to offend, I just have some pretty strong opinions on the subject. Can you tell?
thanks, Chris

[fishdoc11]

aquaman,
Montipora capricornis

[fishdoc11]

Oh wait, I'm wrong ( lighting on the brain). The one that was receeding was a Hydnaphora grandis or Hydnaphora rigida( horn coral ), hard to tell exactly. I'm sorry if I got it wrong the first time.
Chris

[aquaman67]

LOL...ok, I'm straight now. Sorry for being so anal but I really like to know what's in my tank.

And again, thanks to everyone at the meeting! I never even thought about SPS corals. Now I know that some are possible with PC lights.

I have a powerquad 96 watt PC light. The bulb has four tubes, 17 inches long, so the light is pretty concentrated.

I mounted the Montipora Capricornis horizontally close to the top and the Elkhorn a few inches lower. Hopefully all will do well...thanks again!

[Oldschooler]

Aquaman... I guess you didn't hear me in a post above, but... it (the coral you keep asking about) is a Hydnophora grandis.

Chris... Ain't no way am I offended. I just think in this instance you are wrong. :) Seriously, man, are you taking into consideration the amount of daytime sun that tank receives in the front window??? I literally had a difficult time carrying on a conversation with Sideways and KevLouie a week ago because the sun was SO bright in our eyes in the front. And yes, the deresa and squamosa are both not as light-needy, which is why Sean [correctly] chose them. Wooglin has a point that they are often quite extended, but I would say that they are FAR from gaping. Everything is growing, and while it might be argued that the MH may make them "color" "better", I still believe the tank is doing fine as it is. Perhaps, and much to *someone's* chagrin (sorry, I digress), when we EXPAND, we can someday have all kinds of tanks with halides out the wa-zoo...

And so's ya know, Chris, I don't consider this disagreement a flame war at all! THIS is how people learn- by hearing other people argue their points! I say let's be yin and yang, man!!! Or maybe Spy vs. Spy!!!!!!!!!

~Roberto

:blown:

[fishdoc11]

Unfortunately, I have read in articles ambient sunlight is usually negligable unless you have a green house type setup (ie. from above) I don't doubt you get alot of sunlight in that window however it is hard (or physically impossible)for sunlight to come under the "awning" outside and up to the top of your tank. Plus commercial windows are treated with stuff to block ceartain wavelengths of light, mainly uv rays, but undoubtedly others also. In addition there are many people that have greenhouse setups just for propigating frags and even in these many times the corals don't color up as much as they do under MH, many use MH to suppliment because of this. It has alot to do with where we are in relation to the equator. I agree that your animals will probably be "ok" in that tank but "ok" and doing well are a good distance apart.
Chris

[rcmike]

Yeah, You have to figure the glass in the window blocks some and the glass in the tank blocks some more.

[Oldschooler]

Similarly, the glass from a protective lens and a glass canopy block *some* light, and water deflects some more.

I respect everyone's opinions, but I still see more "color" in that tank than in anyone's pics I've seen yet... Maybe it's just Sean's *magic*.

[Oldschooler]

Oh... And Wooglin's got an idea that lands somewhere in the middle... The Teklight (sp?) may be a reasonable compromise. :)

[kevlouie]

I've always heard that you need 2 basic components for SPS (any coral for that matter). Food and pristine water. Corals can "make" their food through variously colored photosynthetic symbiotic zooanthae held in their tissue. Corals can also capture food directly, anemone style. I have always heard that the more light you provide, the less you need to feed them and the more zooanthae they will grow in order to produce more food from the light. The more zooanthae the coral has, the more color it has. Coversely the more the coral can be "lazy" and directly capture food, the more brown it will appear. Thats why people don't feed corals as often. Now apparently E-bay has a good combo, because their corals seem to be healthy and retaining most of their color.

[fishdoc11]

Actually the brown zooxanthelle is a different type than the more colorfull ones. It is adapted to lower light conditions.
Chris

[Oldschooler]

I'll totally agree with you there, guys. I never doubted a halide would make the corals color differently. Still, fishdoc's green caps are very green. As green as his? No, but very green. Also, the larger they grow, the more green they become. Would I like to live in a perfect world? Heck yeah! Do I? Obviously not... :) Do we at least have great water quality? *I* think so! :) Sean's got 3.5+ watts without the sun, which Calfo says in his book is a great thing, so I figure on most days we've got well over 4 watts per gallon. If we could handle the heat, we'd definitely use more. But we can't, so for now we won't...

Although we did discuss ANOTHER p/c for the front. LOL