7500 Gallon Reef Shelf

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Hi all, havent been on this board for awhile, thought I would join the team. Anyway, we are building a display tank for our showroom and like you input in some design features. The tank will be fiberglass with an acrylic veiwing window, the mold is partly made we just have to decide on the final length. So far we have decided on 18'Lx7'Dx8'T. It will have a artifical rock shelf on the back wall and I am trying to finalize how we are going to add some real live rock to the rear wall, we want the tank to look like a reef shelf, corals on the back wall, with different layers of rock, a center piece pile of rock will probably be added, and will probably have a 14th century pirate ship replica anchor that encrusted, lodged in the rock pile. What have folks been using for their large skimmers? Anyone been using the large ETSS skimmers such as the quad 5000, I was thinking mabey 2 of them. Or do you think it is better to use just 1 skimmer? It wont have a huce load, but I will need to make a very large calcium reactor, anyone know of plans for a large one? How much flow have folks been using on their large tanks?Just looking for any tips and hints that others have learned along the way, better for me to learn from others mistakes, instead of duplicating them myself.... Any suggestions???
Thanks: Kyle

[dgasmd]

Sounds like a great project. The top to bottom distance will amke you scuba dive for every single thing you do in that tank. You realized that right? It is will be OK at the begining, but it will turn into a huge pain in the a.....

As far as flow, you won't have anything more efficient than multiple close loops with larger pumps in addition to 4-5 dump buckets (100g each?) if you have the room for them. These would be extremely easy to make oout of plastic containers or just simply make them out of fiberglass since you are going to be using tons of it.

For a Ca reactor, I would contact GEO from this board. His web site is:
GEO (http://www.geosreef.com/)

Have him make you 2 custom reactors with 12" diameter and 60" tall. You will likely need a pressure rated iwaki 55 for recirculation in them to be able to efficiently move enough water through the media. Alternatively, you could buy 2 of the largest Deltec reactors.

As far as skimmers, I would go with a RK2 unit custom made for something this big.

You ahve to realize the water volume and demands you are talking about has probably never been done in a hobbiest level here outside of those people working for public aquariums.

I highly recommend you contact justjow from this board as well. He is the curator at the Long Island Aquarium and it was a hobbiest for a decade+ before that. He had to make and order custom equipment for their 20,000g tank and would be most suited to help you than most of us.

Good luck.

[KenT]

I think you should go with multiple skimmers. For flow, closed loops and actually extend the return plumbing into the middle of the tank to move water throughout the tank. I don't know much about dump buckets, but sounds like you will need multiple ways to move water. You will need to contact the Cal reactors builders on this site. They can build anything you want. Have you thought about lighting? I don't know how deep 1000 watt halides will go. Heating and cooling? Plans for removing humidity? Wow, huge project! Good Luck.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Thanks for the Contact Info...
Yeah I know it will be a chore to clean, and everything else... We want something in our showroom that will make our customers jaws drop, this should do the trick. I was planning on using Mixing Eductors to increase"in tank" flow, they flow up to 5x more water than what the pump is pushing through them, so if I use a few of them it should create some turbulence pretty easily. I have looked at the RK2 skimmers, but I think I should be able to make something out of fiberglass and acrylic that is just as good. I have been trying to design a 400 or so gallon surge tank, do you think draining the surge in 10 seconds is too fast?

[UnderWorldAquatics]

Most corals will be higher up in the tank on reef shelfs, the 1000W halides will be fine to light it up... The building that the tank will be housed in is a custom garage built to hold tanks and thats it, lots of venting, all sealed materials, cooling will be done with a large residential airconditioner that I already have, as well as a large inline chiller. The tank will have very good insulation wraped around it and then sealed in with more fiberglass. It will start getting setup this spring summer.
Thanks for the info...

[KenT]

Dumping 400 gals in 10 secs? That should stir things up!

[pch90265]

Underworld... I don't know if you have a manufacturer for your tank yet, but I have a great reference in San Diego for Public Aquarium quality fiberglass systems...

PM for details.

--SM--

[UnderWorldAquatics]

thanks for the offer, I have a very good guy making the tank! the mold is already partly built

[dgasmd]

The dump bucket is a very efficient way to move tons of water. 400g in 10 sec would be great, but you would still need 2-3 in addition to tons of close loop ports. The eductors are a great idea. I use them too. The only thing about them is that you need pressure rated pumps to mantain the drive that increases the flow at the end. In a tank your size you would need dozens to move water in 18'x7'x8'! That is even in addition to the dump buckets.

As far as the skimmer, yes, you can probably build something similar to a RKS and likely be much cheaper too.

1000 watt halides should do well.

The key on something this big as with any larger tank is efficiency. You can acchieve the same end results with tons of different things. The key is not to have to spend 6 times your gross income in electricity costs.

Heating and cooling is going to be a huge issue regardless of how well the insulation of the tank is. You are also going to evaporate tons and tons of water, which will help with cooling in summer months, but will give you problems in Canada's winter. The air being so dry in winter I now evaporate 4-5 gpd more now than in summer with tons of fans on. I can only imagine going from my 550g total volume to your 7500g+ volume. Cooling or warming up the room and good ventilation is a must to make it efficient, but you will likely need more than that.
Wish you the best of luck.

By the way, the name to contact in this board I put in my first reply is wrong. His name here is JUSTJOE. He is the curator of the Long Island Aquarium and a very knowledgeable guy. He literally designed and build the tank they have now, which is a 20,000g reef.

[UnderWorldAquatics]

I was thinking that just one 400 gallon surge tank would be enough as it would raise the water level 5 1/2" in 10 seconds, and I was using it as a bonus meas of circulation and oxygen enrichment. I am trying to find pumps with the lowest power consumption and high flow with pressure. So far I have found a few in the 12000gph range, I would need a few of them for sure, havent decided yet but I was looking at around 50000gph of pump flow + eductors+ 400 gallon surge. I might drain the surge a little slower with many outlets. For heating and cooling I am heating and airconditioning the building and was thinking about a water heat exchanger that would cool and heat the water when needed. Ventalition is easy to handle. The lighting is a killer for the electrical costs, Might do some compact flourcent lighting as well. At least I can experiment with the lighting. The rest of the system needs to be planned carefully!!! Evaporation will be handled by a 1500gpd RO-DI comercial system. Any tips and links to good equipment is appreciated, 5000 brains are better than 1....
Thanks: Kyle

[dgasmd]

For one, forget about PC lighting. You could light up 50 of then next to each other and it would not do anything for lighitng in that tank. Your choices here are definately 400 watt and 1000 watt. I think Joe had told me he uses many 1000 watt 6500K and a few 400 watt 20K just for color in addition ot a couple of 1000 watt 20K.

For RO/DI units, you might want to check out Aqurium Reef systems. They are a sponsor here. Talk to them and see what they say.

[Perez14]

You could also try solar tubes. Cost a lot less than halides.

http://www.bigfrogmountain.com/suntunnel.html

http://www.ontheline.com/solatube/faqs.html

https://www9.ssldomain.com/presenceknown/azsolar/catalog/poscatalog.asp?category=TUBULAR+SKYLIGHTS+!

[AuroraDave]

Here is a RC thread on SolaTubes (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56125)

[LookItsTT]

keep up updated. i would like to some pics of the setup and all :)

[darkwingduck]

Hi Underworld, look at
http://www.flora2000.de/fl_frameset.html
It's a 6000 gallon reef in a shop in my neighbourhood. Skimming is done by 2 Knop's.