Do you have wild-caught fish that are available captive-bred or tank-raised?

[Trumpet12]

cwa46 pointed out that asking about a hypothetical situation did not tell as much as the reality, which is why I am creating this poll. If you purchased a wild-caught fish of a species that is now available captive-bred or tank-raised, before that species was available from any source other than the ocean, do not include these fish in your count.

P.S. When I refer to fish that are available tank-raised or captive-bred, I mean available anywhere that you can drive to or receive a shipment from.

[billsreef]

Should be an interesting poll ;) An no I don't have any wild caught fish that are currently available as an aquacultured product :)

[SeaStar]

I will buy tank raised whenever possible, but other than various clowns and cardinals are there many other tank raised, captive breed etc. species available.
I was speaking to one of the LFS owners in my area the other day who actually has good ethics for a LFS. I was trying to talk him into setting up more coral tanks and he told me he dislikes the coral sales the most because he feels most will perish in hobbyists tanks. (probably true considering most hobbyists don't search out the support of places like RC or do nearly enough research prior. Either way I can respect his view).

That is when I brought up aquacultured and to go for a niche market which doesn't exist in my area. He said he tried the tank raised route with fish time and again and every time 99.99% of his customers went for the cheaper wild caught even though he tried to explain survival rates etc.
I wish there was a way to educate hobbyist more and that in the long run captive and aquacultured will actually save you $$ when loses are taken into consideration.

[Trumpet12]

I used to have a great, ethical LFS in my area. The owner told me that no one in the area except me cared at all about getting captive-bred or tank-raised livestock.:( One of his fish store-owning friends kept trying to convince him to start getting his stuff from C-Quest. His friend's store got hit by an epidemic of some sort of fish disease and (this is what I think he said) every wild-caught fish died. None of the captive-bred fish died. This convinced my LFS to switch to C-Quest. :) Unfortunately, shortly after that the LFS's owner got bored of running a fish store and went back to college.:( No one else in my town really stocks tank-raised or captive-bred fish, which is a problem for me because I try to limit myself to only captive-bred (or tank-raised from the larval stage in some cases) organisms.

[billsreef]

The only way to sucessfully push tank raised in a store, is not to offer any wild caught specimens of the tank raised ones. For example, if you put a tank of wild caught clowns up for sale for $9 and a tank of tank raise for $16 next to each other....Even after explaining the difference, most customers will still buy the $9 ones till they've killed several and spent far mor than the $16 :( However, if you simply leave them no choice but the tank raised, most will buy them instead of looking elswhere.

[vitz]

Originally posted by billsreef
The only way to sucessfully push tank raised in a store, is not to offer any wild caught specimens of the tank raised ones. For example, if you put a tank of wild caught clowns up for sale for $9 and a tank of tank raise for $16 next to each other....Even after explaining the difference, most customers will still buy the $9 ones till they've killed several and spent far mor than the $16 :( However, if you simply leave them no choice but the tank raised, most will buy them instead of looking elswhere.

based on my retail experience over the years, i would have to disagree.

case in point is the last lfs i worked in as a manager,-we carried both wild caught, and captive raised, clowns, and dottybacks from ora.

the determining factor, most of the time, for which was purchased by the customer, seemed to be the salesperson's ability to point out the benefits of tank raised fish to the purchaser.

even when the t/r fish were slightly more expensive

fwiw-in my last tank 3/5 of the fish were t/r-a pair of t/r skunk clowns, and a t/r neon dottyback

it was usually enough to point out that the t/r fish had at least a slightly better chance of doing well in a tank environment, due to being raised in one, to clinch the sale ;)

[Trumpet12]

Why did you carry wild caught clowns and dottybacks if you could get captive-bred ones from ORA?

[Scuba_Dave]

I guess we are lucky to have several local club members who hatch & raise clowns & other fish

I guess the other issue is, how do you know which is which? You have to rely on LFS for info

[vitz]

Originally posted by Trumpet12
Why did you carry wild caught clowns and dottybacks if you could get captive-bred ones from ORA?

most retailers,ime, offer both wild caught, and t/r, sources for the species that have both available-my guess is for simple economics,-there is always a small percentage of folks who won't buy t/r, for whatever reasons( deformed clownfish come to mind, misbars, etc), why should they leave the lfs w/out buying something?;)


e.g.- i would not purchase t/r maroon clowns for my own tank, until some serious genetic trait issues first get ironed out by the major breeders-the t/r ones have too weirdly a shaped head for my tastes.

but i owned a mated pair of wilds for about 4 yrs;)

[Trumpet12]

How many people have you run into who will not buy captive-bred fish because of these slight abnormalities?

[vitz]

in the mid 90's, when c-quest, i believe it was,(me memory is failing, abit-it was the operation out of puerto rico) started to push their 'product' -enough were so deformed that i actually chose to not carry certain varieties of t/r clowns

over the past few years, i've just carried smaller amounts of the species that tend to be inferior looking( as far as clowns go)


i do think that ora's quality control has improved greatly over what used to be available, however

fwiw-if i opened up a store today, i'd definitely still carry both t/r, and wild caught, of species that have both available-from clowns to flame angels

[Trumpet12]

vitz,
I once read an article about someone breeding flame angels and then saw some captive-bred ones for sale. I have not seen them since then. Who carries captive-bred flame angels? I would be very interested in knowing.

[vitz]

i don't know if they're being marketed yet(i've heard some rumors) mebbe someone else can chime in

fwiw-the folks who 'pioneered' the flame angel rearing techniques, actually developed a whole new software that analyzes the counts/population density, and species, of micro-organisms that are cultured/used in the planktonic/larval rearing stages of the angels, to ensure the proper species/density in cultures, thereby greatly increasing the success rate-there was an 'bit' about 'em last year on tech tv :)

(if you search for 'tech tv' on rdo's gen.reef forum, you may turn up a thread or two ;) )

[Trumpet12]

So, does anyone know where you can buy captive-bred flame angels?