bubble problems and sump design help

[deputydog95]

i have a 180 with a three foot sump and about 7000 GPH worth of pumps going through it. it's like a hurricane in there, which in turn is causing some wicked micro bubbles in the tank. very annoying. i've tried everything and i mean everything. i've come to the conclususion that the sump is just too small and i'm going to upgrade it to a 6 foot sump.

can anyone give me some tips on sump design? i'm going to have a local acrylic guy do it. i'm getting a good deal on it because he is going to use some left over funky colored stuff he is trying to clear out :)

any suggestions on baffles (how many? where to put them?)
same question for crossmembers on the top?
it's going to be made out of 1/4 acrylic. seems to be the consensus that that's plenty for this type of application where the water volume will be low most of the time.

let's hear some ideas :)

[crescent1]

i converted my old 150 gallon tank thats 6'L by 18''w and 28''h into my sump with a refuge in center.

it works well for micro bubble control due to the baffles. i have a high amount of flow thru the sump, two iwaki 100's and one iwaki 70 draining into the sump from the skimmer return.http://tonysreef.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/newsump1.jpg

[dgasmd]

I guess I just don't understand why anyone would run so much water through a sump. It sort of defeats the purpose of having them.

[crescent1]

so dgasmd, whats the purpose for a sump in your opinion.

[deputydog95]

Why not have a sump with a bunch of water flow? i'm not using the sump for anything besides a place to circulate the water. i'd rather have a ton of circulation going through my tank and sump than fill my tank with powerheads that are A) ugly and B) produce a bunch of heat. Just my opinion.

[deputydog95]

cresent, can i see you sump from the side so i can see your baffle pattern?

[dgasmd]

Tony:
the main purpose of a remote sump are many and they all need somewhat of a moderate flow for them to happen and be efficient. Most people use them for:
-heatting. You can put your heaters there out of sight.
-cooling. you can route your cooling by either fans or chillers from there. This and the above need enough contact time to heat or cool the water. If it goes too fast by them it takes them 3-4 times as much work to heat/cool. That means so much more energy wasted in electricity and longer time to remain stable.
-increased water volume. Flow has nothing to do with this.
-a place to hide equipment
-a place to create a refugium for macroalgae to grow. Too much flow through them and it prevents the algae from using nutrients, prevents it from attaching well, and prevents it from growing fast.
-skimming. You HAVE to allow enough contact time for the water to go through the skimmer. That is much more eeficiently done by having water go slower throught the sump and having the skimmer maybe even recirculate it before it makes it to the tank. It strips much more out of it.

Flow in the main tank is one of the reasons why people started using powerheads and close loops. The other thing is that most people that have very high flow have the same problem this guy above is having = tons of microbubbles.

It was not an attack, just trying to explain my point. By the way Tony, how is the tank doing? Ready to get some frags? I ahve some stuff you could have if you want to come by and get it.

Alberto

[crescent1]

alberto my friend, im not taking it personally at all.

do you honestly believe that to high a flow will stop micro algae from absorbing nutrients, i dont.

in my case , the overflow from my tank drains into the first section of the sump, wich in turn my skimmer intake sits, wich we all know is the second to ideal place for it to be, the first bieng a tank surface skimmer intake.

in my case, i have a closed loop for the chiller, it doe's not draw water from the sump but rather strait from the tank wich is ideal and returns to the main tank.

the point im trying to make is , you can have a high flow sump/ refuge and still keep the micro bubble problem to near zero with a well planned baffle spacing and amount of baffles.

also what do you consider to be a moderate flow thru your sump/ refuge.

thanks for asking about the tank, its working well and i would like to come by your place and get some frags and finally check out your system, i'll bring my flow meter with me, lol.

[deputydog95]

can you give me some ideas for baffle design on a six foot sump. i need to talk to my acrylic guy tomorrow. thanks.

[JCURRY@WESKETCH]

deputydog95

I also have a 30 gallon sump on my 125 but have never had a problem with micro bubbles. I have 3 - 1" flex tubing from the overflow box down to and "Y" into a 1 1/2" rigid pvc pipe that runs horizontally (with slight pitch) along the top of the sump. The PVC dumps into the sump at the far end from the pump intakes just above the water line @ a 45 degree angle. The PVC has 4 "Y" glued into it, the 4th "Y" is closed down to a 1/2" dia. hole which acts like a vent. Try it out it's got to be cheaper than having a custom sump made.

Jeff

[lilbuddy]

nice sump...and I agree on having a big sump...more water volume is always better IMO