Transition advice sought (ByTor)

[Tagamet]

Well, here's the current situation. The 120 with the SPS and reefcrystal saltmix water, needs to be shifted over to Red Sea saltmix. The SPS that haven't started bleaching are actually looking pretty good. The HUGE orange digita is exceedingly cool and fuzzy all over. The corals that took the biggest hits were the acros, but most of those haven't bleached, they just aren't extending their polyps. Now that the halides are up to 6.5 hours per day, they are extending a tiny bit more. Not really coloring up, just that the bumps are a bit bigger. If it's a good idea, I could move most of the frags to the 240 (Instant Ocean mix) until I've made the transition to Red Sea. Options, obviously, run from a couple of big water changes all the way to a bazzillion 5 gallon changes. (Bytor, especially) Advice?
Tagamet

[bmkindig]

whats wrong with reef crystals i have no problems with it,but i have mostly softies no sps. i'll shutup now!!
brad

[Snookie]

Tag, how many watts do you have smoking on the 240?

[Tagamet]

Originally posted by Snookie
Tag, how many watts do you have smoking on the 240?

I just have a 1050W, but that's just a softie tank (g). The 120 has 1200W but it's only 4 feet long.
Tagamet

[Snookie]

You must own stock in PPL! :rolleyes:

[MarksReef]

Whats wrong with reef crystals.

[Snookie]

Looks like you have a similar setup to what I'm planning. See my post (you may have to copy and paste---still figuring the HTML thing out): http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2052014#post2052014 (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2052014#post2052014)

[ByTor]

Brad and Mark, it's not Reef crystal salt that is the problem. It is Crystal sea salt that is... More than a few fellow spsaholics I know, experienced bleaching events after doing a water change with Crystalsea. Then there are a few fellow "longtime reefers" that I sent frags to that were using crystaldeath and my corals bleached and died. These were young systems from 6 months to a year old. But each was using crystalsea from startup...
Another thing, everyone of these"young" systems had elevated alk levels. Like to the tune of 7 to 9 meql!!! Another reefer in Fla had chronic problems with their system 2 yr.old system. After try'n everything I knew to help get this system running right and growing corals (sps, lps and softies)The whole time I had her doing double what her weekly water change was, and things were just getting worse! Well enough is enough we went calling on the " chemistry experts" stumped BTW... Salifert replaced test kits,Habib even sent boron test kit. Testing with the new kits still had the same results... High alk, high pH and a elevated boron level. She was so fedup with all the troubles, she was going to quit reefing and go back to discuss!!! Finally myself and a few others talked her into draining the system and refilling it with either IO or RC. Well she did the deed. Guess what!?!
The system is purrrrr'n!!! The ionic balance is within specs.

Well now since the salt change it's a brand new system! Corals are growing, her green carpet anenome has like tripled in size! She added a few new acro frags they have all started to encrust in less than a month. Before, they either just sat there and lost color showed now polyps for months or bleached and died within a week or two...Since the total water change,coraline started growing within a few weeks. She hasn't seen coraline in well over a year!
It started disappearing after the change to crystalsea. (Not the only reefer that noticed)
She thought it was due to her ro/di.. spent countless $$$ upgrading that.Then that didn't help. She asked questions ppl told her this that and the other! She spent countless$$$ on test kits. $$$ for more sand $$$ for new bulbs $$$new skimmer...
It was kinda like Ye'ole Ron's advice.
Throw more money at it and it will get better! :rolleyes:

After all of this it was as simple as salt mix...... Tag, that was my vent! ;)

OK Tag, now....... What is the big 4??? (alk? Ca? NO3? PO4?)
BTW Tag most acros only show polyps at night. are they showing at night? As for the ones that are OK they are prolly light shocked a bit. How would you like to be woke up with all that 400 watt MH blasting you??? Dude they are use to a nice easy sunrise............ 640w of VHO's ramped up over the course of 2 hrs. then 250 w's of 20k mh for a 15 min (rub your eyes to the sunrise) then open them up to another day with 500 w's of 20k for a 8 hr. day of MH's... Then a 2 hr. ramp down in VHO's..
When the moon is in phase at night. They stretch their polyps even more! It's "AMAZING" to sit and watch their responce to the coming day.

Anyway, I say keep them where they are. Stick to the lighting schedule... Test nitrates and alkalinity, before and a few hrs. after a water change... IMO After doing those 2 big w/c's, just change out 20 gals every other day if not every 2nd day... Or just go for the gusto and drain out say 100 gals and change it all at once.... :eek: BTW did you test your source water for nitrates and phosphates???

[Tagamet]

Thanks ByTor,
Today's Jess' last day home, so the tanks will wait until tomorrow (or late tonight). I have the next two days off work, so I can do 2 hefty water changes on the SPS tank.
I haven't tested the RO/DI water, but it's a 5 stage Typhoon III unit that's reading 0 DOC on the meter that came with it. The tap water is in the 90's!
I'll stick to the 30 min increase in lights per 2 weeks (if I can stand it). Remember, I have 220 W of VHO on for 3 hours before and after the MH's, so it's not a total blast to the corals.
Thanks again,
Tagamet

[Chris Mu.]

get tropic marine ... there isnt a salt that is better.... red sea is not to my liking .. it used to come with little sticks in it and lots of debris .. cause its "natural" we stopped selling red sea salt cause its crappy .. cant go wrong with TM ... has 70 trace elements .. thats all we use at the store .. and thats all i'll use in my tank.. and thats all i'll reccomend to anyone ....its great salt

[Tagamet]

Originally posted by Chris Mu.
get tropic marine ... there isnt a salt that is better.... red sea is not to my liking .. it used to come with little sticks in it and lots of debris .. cause its "natural" we stopped selling red sea salt cause its crappy .. cant go wrong with TM ... has 70 trace elements .. thats all we use at the store .. and thats all i'll use in my tank.. and thats all i'll reccomend to anyone ....its great salt

The only consistent pattern regarding saltmixes is that people recommend the one that they are either using or selling or both. Everything seems anecdotal except for Dr Ron's research and even that is being contested on many fronts. My bottom line at this point is that these specific corals should be in the same soup as that from which they came, and that was Red Sea saltmix. They most CERTAINLY were doing great in that tank! I KNOW that there are a bazzillion variables which are not controlled for, but at least I can keep this one constant. If I'd been knowledgeable enough, I would have ASKED which mix they were in. I wasn't. My bad. The corals were the ones that suffered.
All I ask is that this thread doesn't get into an "EGO" thing, where people feel persoanlly assaulted by differing saltmix opinions. Again, there are just too many variables to say with certainty that any one of them is the penultimate key.
Thanks,
Tagamet

[bmkindig]

thanks tim
i got a scare there i guess i didn't realize there was a crystaldeath salt that happens to share a partialname with reef crystals
hey tag, if theres nothing wrong with reef crystals y you HAVE to swicth all at once
brad

[ByTor]

Chris,
I agree with you about Tropic marine. I used it to start all of my systems years ago and would use it to this day. That is if my source for it wouldn't have gone away :( My nearest source is an hour and a half away and it is $47.00 plus. So then I started using Reef crystals and used it for close to 4 yrs.

What made me switch to Red sea was Mo. I just so happened to be out of salt when I went to the first NCPARS swap. Mo had a great deal on it and I needed it... Since I have been using it mixes right up and test out fine for me with my water. I have been using it since I think May.I have since used close to 600 gals of it, and all of my systems are thriving. Growth and color has been great! Better than what I was getting when using RC's..
Now, given the opportunity to use Tropic marine again I would switch back in a heart beat... Maybe once I'm thru with the last buckets of RS I'll make the switch back...
JMHO :twitch:

Tag,
I totally agree dude! :beer:

[ByTor]

Tag, I just re-red your post.. are you using Reef crystals or crystal sea??? I'm now totally confused!

[Tagamet]

Originally posted by ByTor
Tag, I just re-red your post.. are you using Reef crystals or crystal sea??? I'm now totally confused!

In that tank I had only used crystal sea marinemix. That's the one you spazzzed out about (lol). Now I have a bucket of Red Sea mix, but I won't OPEN it until I hear back from you! It's a square "bucket". The crystal sea was/is in boxes with plastic bags inside.

Brad: "hey tag, if theres *nothing wrong* with reef crystals you HAVE to swicth all at once
brad"

This is confusing me. What do you mean?

Tagamet

[bmkindig]

tags quote=Well, here's the current situation. The 120 with the SPS and reefcrystal saltmix water, needs to be shifted over to Red Sea saltmix.
then bytor said theres nothing wrong with reef crystals that it's the crystal sea thats crap
brad

[bmkindig]

oops i see now i forgot the "why" in there as in why do you have to switch. sorry

[Tagamet]

Originally posted by bmkindig
oops i see now i forgot the "why" in there as in why do you have to switch. sorry

NOW I got it! Thanks for the clarification.
Tagamet

[ByTor]

Me = :crazy1: Yeah Tag, square white bucket... That's the stuff....

No worries.....

Guess what I just did.

I was just dusting equipment off. I tilted my Ca reactor to clean around it. Next thing I hear is the mag pump screaming for help!
The reactor is a flow up design, and is half empty. Well the mag drive push the bottom media plate with what's left of the media to the top of the reactor. There is no top screen or foam to stop the media from getting sucked into the pump. :sad1: Well after beating :hammer: on the top of the reactor everything settled back into place. But not until it turn the tank into a glass of milk!

What a day!

[ByTor]

Well it wasn't a total loss today.
I did manage to fab 2 sets of reef tank ape hangers. :D

I have a 6 inch space behind my 125 where I plan on running the plumbing to the pair of these. I plan on hanging these over the back edge of the tank. They will be running closed loop, powered by a mak 4.
As for prep to the squids, what I did was grind off the hose barb on the inputs and outputs. Then I threaded the ends.
I also drilled out their inputs and outputs a few mills.
I'm hoping to gain a little more flow. I plan on running 1" pipe stepped down to 1/2" for their tiny inputs.
I'm also planning a ball valve inline just before the second one to help with timing them...
I'm also kicking around the idea of dropping an output on each down to midway in tank so as to get to those low flow zones behind and in between the rock work.

Whatta think???

[millisec]

Hey folks... I won't go into a lot of detail, but I have in other threads, but I got stung by the similar Instant Ocean problem. So whether reef crystals(made by same as IO) or crystal sea I would avoid these days. There have been numerous reports for months and a member of PARC just told me on Saturday he got hit with the same. Basically dKH off the charts and falling PH levels that I was unable to correct. Anyway I made the switch to Tropic Marin (that I've used before) and the tank literally exploded back to life. I think I missed the early signs of a problem and some ricordia, for instance, that were new and thought just small have tripled in size. I do suspect it was the cause of losing several green and a pink yuma and I was fortunate not to have lost more.

As for red sea salt... I've never used it mainly because of the negatives I always heard/read mostly relating to it manufacture. Supposedly the only salt not manufactured and the byproduct of desalinization plants in Israel. Your getting a NSW mix but it includes all the unwanted extras from pollution and debris.

As for Corallife... a free Tshirt and always a healthy dose of ensuing cyano.

I've trusted and used IO for many years but the trust is gone on any product they sell including reef crystals. Not just the bad batches but what seems like a total coverup by IO and lack of any communication.

Bottom line... trust your $$$ stock to no salt, buy buckets that will last a while and test them before use. Just glad I never used crystal sea as I almost did. And based on the many months of problems be attributed to it I am more than a little surprised to see Dr Mac still selling it and defending it.

[ByTor]

Millisec,
I did hear about that. Maybe I changed just in time?
As for finding anything foriegn in Redsea. All I found so far (now into my 3rd bucket) is Salt.


DOH! Here's the Ape hangers.

[ByTor]

Millisec,
I did hear about that. Maybe I changed just in time?
As for finding anything foreign in Redsea. All I found so far (now into my 3rd bucket) is Salt.


DOH! Here's the Ape hangers.

[ByTor]

Now to get water flowing thru them...