Centropyge angel, How to obtain a pair?

[OrionN]

I have a Coral Beauty for the last 1 year. He was about 1.25 inches when I first pace him into my tank. Now he is about 2 inches. He is a very beautiful fish with mostly darl purple coloration and florescence blue fin's edges. He only have a hinted of orange stripes on his body.
I wanted to add another Coral Beauty to the tank (400 g). There is no other angle in the tank right now, but I have a 2.5-3 inches Majestic Angel that I am trying to fatten-up before he goes into the display tank.
What are some of your experiences in obtain a pair of Centropyge angel in your reef? Any of you has specific experiences on C. bispinosus?
Thanks,

[Bass_Cadet]

I had a pair of cherub angels (Centropyge argi) that were most likely spawning (female looked gravid, male assumed spawning pose, male made visits to female "station", but I never tried to get the eggs). Unfortunately, the male angel died of a bacterial infection. [For more info, see the "Breeding orchid dottyback with popeye" thread.] I've since added two C. loriculus and am hoping they pair up. The female C. argi is still in the tank (60 gallon FOWLR) and she is occasionally chased as is the smaller flame angel.

It'd be best to add both angels at the same time but unless you can catch the Coral Beauty, rearrange some rock, and then introduce the new angel, I guess you can try adding a smaller one, although 2" is still small--they get to ~4". Another possibility is to add two more so that they form a harem. The dominant fish will become the male and he will visit the two females, which set up stations, during spawning.

Centropyge sp. are protogynous hermaphrodites and there will be some chasing. It'd be best to have a lot of hiding places and I also think cleaner shrimps (Lysmata wurdemmi and L. debelius) are desirable. I don't know if it's a full reef tank, but Centropyge sp. may nip at corals and clams.

I don't think you'll have a problem with the Majestic angel. I had a Singapore angel in my tank.

HTH, YMMV, IME, CYA.

greg

[monk]

Another way to obtain a pair of angels is to simply buy them. Some exporters (Hawaii) will be able to catch pairs or entire harems.

Monk

[Bass_Cadet]

Interesting. How much are pairs or harems (say of C. loriculus) going for? I think there is a website that sells pairs (some spawning) of clownfishes, selected dottybacks, and gobies but their prices are roughly 4 times the normal price.

I personally wouldn't buy/pay a collector for a pair or harem. It seems that unless you are seriously attempting to breed them, they would be better off in the wild. Also, getting Centropyge to pair up isn't very difficult and watching them go through the courting period is good preparation.

greg

[monk]

You wouldn't buy a pair or harem from a collector? Why not? What is so different from buying a pair vs. buying two singles? Do you honestly believe that the fish we buy were not part of a pair anyways? Or part of a harem? I don't mean to sound irritated, but your response seems only half-way thought through. Some of the fish that collectors sell to dealers/hobbyists are certainly sexually immature, but this cannot be expected of all of the fish caught and sold. A certain percentage of fish ( and I suspect this percentage increases as the size of the sexually mature fish decreases) are sexually mature, and simply removed from their environment. I didn't want to start a flame, just wanted to point this out.

[Bass_Cadet]

I admit my response wasn't fully thought out. Neither will this one (it's getting late and I have other things to do). I am genuinely interested in learning more but won't participate in a flame fest.

First off, the original question was how to pair an existing fish. Adding a male-female pair to an existing fish does not seem to be a good idea. Even if the existing fish has not changed into a male, it still has the advantage of being in the aquarium for a year and will put up a good fight. I am not aware of any reports that have two or more males of the same Centropyge sp. living in the same aquarium. If there is, please post the reference. A while back there was someone (Steve Tyree) who had two pairs of different species in the same tank.

If you just mean obtaining a pair, then of course I agree that you can pay a collector to get one. Once again, I am curious how much do they charge? Also, how many pairs survive collection and transportation (I would guess they have a high survival rate for hand collected and special processing) and is there any way to estimate ages?

I know the fish we buy include some sexually mature fish. It just seems better to have them pair up in the aquarium than capturing a pair and possibly disrupting their spawning. Yes, it does take more time and they may not pair up. But watching them court and change sexes seems like a good way to learn about their behavior. I guess it's a bit of roll your own versus off the shelf.

This is just my opinion and I'm definitely not an expert. Do you think buying a pair is a better method? If so, why?

Thanks,
greg