New system setup, extra eyes on my plan appreciated!

[discocarp]

Hey everybody. I'm getting back into the hobby after a hiatus. I bought a house 2 years ago, and haven't had time for a reef (still have 75g planted freshwater, can't be completely tankless you know!). Now I'm setting my stuff back up.

My system will be primarily composed of equipment I already have, and a few new pieces I purchased to upgrade the crappy parts of my old system, and a few undecided pieces. Feedback would be appreicated! Its my goal to have this thing ready for water this weekend, so I'm looking for some extra eyes to spot anything I'm doing that's stupid! This is intended to be an SPS dominated tank.

Anything in []'s I do not have yet. Suggestions appreciated.

I'm in central florida, so keep that in mind when you see equipment located on the porch.

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Tanks
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Display
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125g (72"x18"x20") in house

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Refugium
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15g in house

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Frag
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55g on porch

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Sump
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55g on porch



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Lighting
==================================

I own all ballasts already. Still deciding on some bulbs.

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Display
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2x400w halide, iwasakis [will be 10k+ for aesthetics when its time to replace the bulb]
1x250w halide [10k+]

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Refugium
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2x28w PCs standard white/blue

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Frag
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Two 175w halides with [cheapest effective bulb], aesthetics non-issue

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Sump
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None

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Plumbing
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2 holes are being put into my cinderblock wall this week, one for 1" PVC (return), one for 1.5" PVC (drain)

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Display
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[Mak4 1190gph] on Closed loop into two 3/4" seaswirls, 3/4" return, 3/4" tee'd intake (over the top of tank) I need a quiet pump here, is this a good choice?
SEN900 as return from sump (on porch) through 1" PVC (through wall)
Drains into sump on porch through 1.5" PVC (tank overflow is just 1", but I drilled wall bigger for possible future needs)

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Refugium
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MaxiJet 400 from main tank into spraybar
Return is gravity into main tank, 1" PVC

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Frag
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MAG 500gph return from sump
3 Maxijet 1200's on natural wave wavemaker
Drains to sump with lifereef overflow

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Sump
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RO/DI from undersink unit, dripped into kalk (not calcium) reactor with a SpectraPure liquid level controller for topoff
[Calcium reactor added when eventual calcium demand increases]
EuroReef in sump CS8-2 with Sedra 5000 pump, would like to plumb the waste collector into the sewer drain on the porch

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Heating/Cooling
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[undecided controller - Agonizing over whether to spring for Aquacontroller]
Pacific Coast 1/2 HP chiller, plumbed into SEN900 return to main tank (convince me now if I should plumb it some other place!)
3 200W Won-Pro titanium heater heaters, 2 on controller, one display tank set a little lower (fail safe)

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Power
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Shared 15A circuit in house
Shared 15A circuit on porch
New 20A circuit, accessible both inside and outside, being installed Thrusday

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Substrate/Rock
==================================

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Display
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Shallow southdown sand bed (1.5")
[Rock undecided]

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Refugium
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Shallow southdown sand bed (1.5")
[Rock undecided]

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Frag
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Bare bottom
[Rock undecided]

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Sump
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Bare bottom
[As much bonus rock as I can cram in!]





Did I forget anything? Thanks!

Peter

[rji1966]

I would think about your sand depth in your display. I like deep sand beds. Maybe in your ref. have one 3-6inches. But in your display go either with a deep sand bed or a thin 1/2" layer. Just an opinion.

[discocarp]

I've had good luck with a DSB in the past (in this tank in fact) but because the tank is shorter, I found it very aesthetically unpleasing. I'd really like to go with a shallow sand bed this time. I was concerned 1/2" would not be sufficient to cover the bottom with the pumps blowing it around. What do you think?

Also, I've decided to change my plan a little bit. I'm picking up a 523 gallon fiberglass tank from aquatic eco systems for a combined sump/frag tank instead of the 2x55 gals. My big concern at the moment is heating. While I'm in florida, I have to plan on the coldest day. The record low here is about 20 degrees F. That's a lot of water volume on the porch to heat. I plan on insulating the sides and bottom of the tank, but I have to allow for light to enter the top (for eventual fragging). I am thinking of putting on acrylic sheets over the top and sealing them with weather stripping or something similar. Hopefully the trapped air will serve to insulate the top.

Regarding heating, I spoke with people at Aquatic Eco systems and Process Tech (they make big 240V heaters). They're telling me I need between 8000-10000 watts of heating. This sounds insanely large to me. Does anyone have any experience heating a large water volume in colder conditions? I'd have to get a huge 240V circuit run for this, and I am worried I'd have to get my breaker upgraded and possibly even the service to the house upgraded to accomodate this. As an alternative, I'm looking at propane water heaters designed for aquaria. They're a little expensive up front, but would definately cover my heating needs. I'm not sure how these interact with a controller though. I'm also not sure what happens if I run out of gas (could be a catastrophe). Does anyone know if they make regulators for propane tanks so I could tell when the gas is low (like my dual stage Co2 regulator does)?

I'm also considering running the tank with about 2500 watts of titanium heaters this winter, forgo putting in livestock, and see how far off I am with that much heat.

Thanks for your input!

Peter

[Loudz34]

8000-10000 watts, are they nuts.. I live in buffalo ny land of snow and ice and temps around 25 all winter, and i have 1300watts on 480 gallons of water and it is fine holding the tank at 79-80, actually once my lights are on for about 8 hours the fans all kick on to cool it a bit and my tank is in a wall between my living room and outside wall.... so it stays a bit cooler in there,,,, I think thgey are nuts about how much heat you need... esp being in fla... alot warmer there then here...

[discocarp]

Sounds a little ridiculous doesn't it? I'm really leaning towards just the 2500 watts of heaters and we'll see where I am come spring. If I insulate the sump well, I really can't see needing as much heat as they're suggesting.

Peter

[diverdon]

I have 600w of ebo-jaber heaters in my 550 acrylic reef. I record the usage of heat and during my very cold time last week the longest time that the heaters ran continuously was 6hrs one night. The overall dutycycle is something like 30% for the last week. The summer / winter doesn't make as dramatic of a difference as you might think. The room that the tank is in varies from 62degf to 88degf, winter to summer. So basically my lights keep it warm during the day and the heaters kick in for the nights. My hood is open along one side (well ventilated) which seems to make a big difference. The multi-killowatt heating would be needed for an unheated building but not in a human environment.

Don

[sterlruth]

Thats too much heat. You'll be writting us on how your heater stuck and you had Sushi soup.


Listen to the guy from Buffalo about heat.

Steve

[discocarp]

I think it sounds like a lot too, but keep in mind most of the system volume will be outside on a porch, NOT in a "human environment". So I think its probably somewhere between the two. Also, I need to plan for the coldest day, not the usual temp. I can't have the tank crank down to 60 on one night a year you know!

As far as sushi soup, that's why I'm running both the controller built into the heater and another temp controller for redundancy. Believe me, I'm very aware (from experience) of heater failures!

I've pretty much decided to run the tank with an indoor normal sump this winter, and run the outside sump as its own volume of water. That way I can experiement with the heat without screwing up my rock. I should have a much better idea of where I stand by spring, just in time for me to worry about how big of a chiller I need for summer. :)

Peter

[sterlruth]

Just remember that failing to plan is planning to fail. Good Luck!

Steve

[diverdon]

ok, here's another data point on heat required. To do a water change I used a 200G poly container (3ft round x 5ft tall) with a 12inch access top. I mixed the new water and added 450watts of heaters. I could not get the tank into the house so it was left outside during a cold period (it's not very cold) where the temperature varied from 70high down to 35low. Without any extra insulation (the poly is about 0.5in thick) the water maintained 74degf.

[discocarp]

That's exceptionally good news for me. With insulation hopefully I can keep the temperature up with the heaters I have. If what I already have (about 2500W) is overkill, I'll be even more happy. :)

If anyone else has any additional specific info, it would be very helpful. It'd be nice to get enough reassurance to run the sump on the tank this winter, but I really don't feel like risking my rock unless I'm very confident it will be ok.

Peter