Best Cal Reactor for a 300gallon plus system???

[Nausicaa]

I know questions like this are like beat'n a dead horse, but seriously. I would like to know what all the large tank reefers (300 +) are using?

I would appreciate knowing what you use and are successful with?
I love pics, so if you have any, indulge me please.

I'm currently using a K2R, but I would like to change to something better for the new tank.

[Tim]

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=266635

[Nausicaa]

thanx, I did see that, but it really didn't answer anything for me.

Its not like anybody really responded.

I thought this forum was for large tank owners who really want to help others.

[Nausicaa]

Sorry, bout that last statement....just a little bit grumpy 'bout nothing. NOTHING DIRECTED TO YOU!!

FOR EVERYONE
I did read that thread, and I guess this seems like a waste of a thread. This one was for my own answers to the same question.

I've read plenty on what others have to say on this subject, but I'm looking for many different experiences on large tanks. The other thread was kwik and short. Didn't answer anything for me. I know that some people have to constantly monitor the cal levels (heavily loaded sps)with different cal reactors with others hardly touch the reactor. I want to know their (your) satisfaction.
So I am looking for the best one for myself...that I won't have to hopefully tinker with all the time. Like my current K2R.

[Tim]

With my MTC which I had on my 600, only needed to be adjusted about once a month.
The build quality was top notch, and maintenence was a breeze thanks to it design.

[Nausicaa]

I've decided to go with the Pro Cal (MTC). Thanx TIM
I did just a little more research and found the answer I was looking for.

[antoniomoreno]

MTC PROCAL RULES

[Nausicaa]

Its ordered and it will take 3 to 4 weeks to build and ship. I guess that they have such high demand that they are that booked out in building/shipping. Worth the wait!

[salsaking]

I hope that you have not bought your mtc pro cal yet!! I have the pro cal myself and i will be selling it soon!

The newest and greatest it the deltec Calcium reactor from Germany!!

Their is a dealer here in the states i beleive. Do a search for deltec Calcium reactor.

My freind just got the Deltec pf1000

The dkh that comes out of that rector is more than double what mine does. 92dkh :eek1: And he only runs it 8 hrs a day. It's also for a 750 gallon tank. I have a 520 gallon tank fully loaded with sps and will go with the deltec.

The deltec is also the new fluidized reactor! It's truly the best reactor out there. It's all about the results in my oppinion!!

Good luck! Salsaking!

[znut Reefer]

Let me know when you decide to sell and how much.

[H20ENG]

salsaking,
What, in your opinion, makes the reactor work so much better than the rest? I'm always looking for the better mousetrap....
Nausicaa,
I have seen (at public aquariums) Jacuzzi cartridge filters converted into ca reactors. That should be big enough. :)

[salsaking]

Goto the Deltec Calcium reactor site and read about it! It's the best reactor by double what the rest of them put out! DKH that is! Good Luck! :)

[H20ENG]

HOW does it double it? dissolves more media? THX
Got a link to that site?

[Nausicaa]

Thanx for the info. I've looked, but I really do not see the difference. Not enough info. for me (ie. Better pics, close ups, connections etc.) Besides all that I buy is at cost, so its not worth it to me. If you know what I mean.


H20ENG
LOL, yeah if you look at Marine Tech. Website they have custom made ones too.

[Nausicaa]

salsaking

Do you have any pics from your friends we can all look at too? Media type as well. I'm just very curious, I can always change my order that I have to wait another few more weeks on, but maybe I can get a better price on it.

[salsaking]

Do a search for deltec reactors! They are made in europe. I beleive their are a couple of distributors here states side selling them. Go check out their websight!! Good luck

[Nausicaa]

I did that before I asked the question, but thanx.

[Nausicaa]

I plan on moving up to seattle in the next couple to few months. I'm up there quite regularly. I would love to see your tank setup sometime :D

[salsaking]

You can check it now if you like if you goto this web sight.

http://12.229.177.212:81/ It's a live feed of my 500 gallon system.

Have fun controlling the camera.

[Nausicaa]

Now that was really awesome and fun!!! The mirror really threw me off. LOL:spin2:
Are you running 20k's or was I just looking at the actinic lighting? 7:23 pm

[saltyseaman]

WOW, that was fun!!! I couldn't help but feel like a peeping tom though :D

[Nausicaa]

I agree it was kinda freaky for me "peeping" into someone else's home. I was afraid to see someone, staring back at me. :eek:

I don't even like to watch any of those voyeurism show's. Sorry, folks I know they are popular, but don't we have enough in our lives to occupy ourselves with? LOL I'd rather stare at my tank for hours and hours and hours on end. Never mind I do that already.

Seriously, I would love to incorporate a live webcam too. Salsaking, again thanx for the peek.

[dragon_slayer]

with 100% saturation of CO2 in the effluent you get a DKH in the high 30's IME, how is this reactor getting in the 90's???

if you drive the ph lower then 6.5 the media is going to break down to sand, is this where the fluidized bed part of the reactor comes into play???

just curious
kc

[salsaking]

Statement to the three comments on looking in my house.

First, it is at my Corporate office! So i don't mind if anyone looks. thats why i put it in. Just to have fun!! That's all.

2nd. The reason that the Calcium reactor gets what it gets is because it it a fluidized reactor. And a good one at that.

go check deltec calcium reactors.

[Toutouche]

I will be checking out the Deltec site this evening, but for now I wanted to add that I'm currently having my Calc reactor built and it is based on the ProCal. From seeing the original ones, I would say their workmanship leaves something to be desired. The one I saw where the pump returns into the chamber through a fitting had glue gooped up to make up for the roundness of the chamber wall against the flat bulkhead ( not very professional in my books). My version ha a bunch of mods done to it. It will be Beckett driven to break up the CO2 better and distribute it more through the media. It will have a flow meter to adjust the effluent driprate so as not to start guessing and calculating with the bubble counter ( although the bubble counter will still be there to compare with). It will have a recirculating line for the CO2 compared to the bleed valve the original one has. No CO2 will be wasted. It will still be dual chambers. I will try to get some pics once it is installed.

[Mako]

I don't know about a Deltec reaching 90+ in effluent DKH readings, but I do know that they only recommend their media in their reactors. Rowalith 2mm media.

[salsaking]

Well I lied!! It gets about 95dkh! My friend has the pf1000 Deltec Fluidized reactor. Almost took whole test kit to measure the affluent. And he only uses it 8 hrs a day on a very heavly stocked 75o gallon sps system.

How about those apples!!:eek2:

[Mako]

What media is he using?

[Nausicaa]

Ok, so I spoke with a Deltec Rep and after much consideration, and lengthy discussion... I cancelled my order with Pro Cal and now I'm getting my PF1000 at the end of this week. I know, I know, its a change and a half for me. Now I understand the whole fluidizing thing too, very simple, but I couldn't follow it on paper.

So on the DKH thing....I was told that they reach into the 70-75 range, but it is imperative that you use the W/C media mix (half/half) when adding your media. One is like sand and the other is larger. Only by using their media can you have these results. I guess they even tried Koralith, but didn't have the same results.

THANX AGAIN SALSAKING!

[dragon_slayer]

70-75 is conciderably more beliveable then 90's :)

kc

[saltyseaman]

Now I understand the whole fluidizing thing too, very simple, but I couldn't follow it on paper.

Please explain :)

[dragon_slayer]

IMO all reactors that have a circulation pump (thats most of them if not all) are fluidized. its just a reversed flow UGF in a bottle. having smaller media gives an effluent with particals of Ca++ in it and gives a much higher reading of DKH because the test kit lowers the PH and breaks this down as the test kits tests the effluent.

just my observation on it.
kc

[Nausicaa]

Hopefully I can remember enough to explain it (in a most simple fashion) without sounding stupid.


Unlike all other reactors where the media sits and does not move in the chamber, the fluidized moves. Allowing greater C02 to media contact, there by achieving the high DKH output (dissolving better and having to refill more often too).
When the media sits in a chamber in a non-fluidized cal reactor CO2 channels are formed and the amount of media having complete contact is there by lessened.

All parts and are (German) handmade as well. People like to know these kind things, so I thought I might add what I was told.

[Nausicaa]

One more thing

This is how B]I[/B] understood it. Don't fault me for trying to explain something that I have not seen in person. YET : )

[dragon_slayer]

Nausicaa

when you get it in and up and running, let us know if the effluent is very milky looking and has the undisolved Ca++ in it.

thanks
kc

[Nausicaa]

Good call D Slayer, I'll do that.

I didn't quite think of that. When I've refilled my cal reactor in the past it would come out milky too, before it settled. I hope that isn't what creates these high readings. Even so, I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Have anything to add salsaking on this matter?

[saltyseaman]

Thanx for the info. Sounds like a fun DIY project :)

[crab0000]

Couldn't you put a heavy duty recirc. pump on a normal reactor with something at the top to keep the media from going all the way to the top and get the same thing? I know when the media gets really low in my Korallin it starts to swirl around inside the chamber. Or maybe I am missing something.
Steve

[dragon_slayer]

it's not the size of the pump as much as the media. if you use smaller 2mm media like the deltec your reactor will do the same thing. but IME they give off a milky effluent (other reactors, cant comment ont he deltec) with solid particals of Ca++ and these are what give the false high dKH readings.

kc

[Nausicaa]

When I get it all up and running I'll try to get some pics of the effluent posted.

[ABahn]

Hey! How about a graphic update....

[Nausicaa]

Mojoreef has a perfect pic, nothing much different here.

[dgasmd]

I have looked into this and spoke with mojoreef at length about it too. His gets a DKH of 85-90 and he does run it only for a few hours per day. He was the TOM here in RC last month, so you can tell from the pictures his Ca demands.

The reason the reactor works so well, I think and speculate, is not entirely because of the reactor. Yes, it is a good reactor, well built and all, but the media has a LOT to do with it too.

I have a custom GEO reactor that is 8" diameter and 36" tall. Single chamber with a little giant 2 MD as recirculation. It is the best thing I have gotten. I had a PM reactor first and then a large dual chamber reactor made by another well known manufacturer and both were compelte KAKA compared to this. I run about 1/3 of the bubbles/min I used to in my old dual reactor and the effluent output and pH is the same. Still use crush coral media as before too. My output DKH is about 26-28. It takes about 3 hours for it to stabilize if I change the CO2 or effluent rate unlike my old dual chamber that used to take 24 hours or more. I can'tsay enough good things baout this reactor and it cost me less than 1/3 the cost of the MTC or the Deltec.

[teog]

On my 315g acro tank i was using a MRC cr-5 single reactor and it kept up nicely with the calcium demands that I had.

[RedEyeReef]

tag

[1Floyd]

Just a quick thought here ...

You can also run a Kalk reactor as well as a Calcium reactor - best of both worlds, especially for the bigger tanks.

[Nausicaa]

I've actually been mull'n that one over too.

[crab0000]

So, who's going to put their media into a different brand reactor and see if it is all just the media?
Steve

[ABahn]

Hmmm, Interesting point. I'd like to see that test.

[dgasmd]

I don't remember if it was in this board or another where someone said they did that and the outcome was a higher DKH, but nowhere like with the Deltec reactor. I don't know what kind of reactor was used, but I suspect if it was in a large and efficient enough reactor, it should work similarly. I might look into that myself.

[dragon_slayer]

i've been going to give the media swap a try for quite a while now but cant get the media and people who have some arent giving up any for testing.

hopefuly the demand for the media will drop and it will be more readily available soon.

kc

[Nausicaa]

I'll get you what you need. Just let me know how much?

[dragon_slayer]

5 lbs would do nicely.

kc

[RedEyeReef]

Originally posted by dragon_slayer
i've been going to give the media swap a try for quite a while now but cant get the media and people who have some arent giving up any for testing.

hopefuly the demand for the media will drop and it will be more readily available soon.

kc

What brand of media are you refering to?

[Toutouche]

Redeye,
A quick read through this thread would answer your question nicely....;)

[RedEyeReef]

Ok I was being lazy... now this Rowalith media, I thought I read somewhere that they have a Rowa + and Rowa - which is two different sizes of media and this is a big part of why this media works? Is that correct and does Rowalith media have different size media in it, do you have to order them separately, or am I just losing it and there is only on size media?

[dgasmd]

The media recommended for the Deltec reactors is the 2 part media. The people that are getting the results we are talking about use the 2 part media. At least the ones I know does.

[RedEyeReef]

Where do you get the media?

[dgasmd]

I believe these guys (http://www.aquatic-reflections.com/newsite/index.html) carry it. Try them.

[dragon_slayer]

the two part is one part media and the other part a lighter filler that causes the media to 'fluidize' better and stay in suspencion.

i can get my ARM media to stay afloat if i limite the amount in the reactor and it does bring the dKH readings up somewhat, but not into the 90's, not even close.

everyone who "sales" the media seams to have a back log of it owed to people who have got deltec reactors from them and they dont have any excess to sell to me to try out. and people who have some on hand arent coming off any for testing.

so if you have a few lbs of the rowalith that you can spare, i'd love to give it a try.

kc

[H20ENG]

What is in the "filler"? What is it adding to the tank? Are both parts the same composition?
Seems like you could just use finer media...

[npaden]

So instead of meeting the calcium needs of the tank by running a normal reactor with cheap crushed coral 24/7, you need to spend more money on a super duper reactor that uses hard to get expensive media so you can run it just a few hours a day? And the reasoning for this?

I run just a regular calcium reactor. As calcium needs go up I can increase the effluent rate and increase my co2 input. I can't afford to dissolve the ARM media it goes so fast, I can't imagine the rowa+ and - media costs.

Just pondering the reasoning behind this. I try to keep my tank budget within reason, but I guess that isn't a priority to some.

Nathan

[dragon_slayer]

................a normal reactor with cheap crushed coral 24/7


FWIW cheap CC adds PO4 to your tank. the conentration of phosphate in it is much higher then the better reactor medias.


and as for running the reactor a few hours and then turning it off...........i belive you should have any/all reactors set so they meet the demands of your system and run 24/7. the 24/7 gives the tank consistancy IMO.

kc

[dgasmd]

The people that run their reactors a few hours per day found they didn't need to run them 24/7 to meet their needs because they were getting 90 DKH after they got the reactor. I don't think it was a planned thing before hand. The only benefit I see to that is you don't dump CO2 24/7, especially at night, into the tank causing depressed pH. The only other benefit I see is you know you can load that tank to the rim and still ahve much room to go in your reactor's capacity to supply Ca and Alk.
I personally have a large custom reactor and run CC too. I can't justify the expense of buying 50 Lb of media to fill my reactor when I can get CC for pennies really. I had it built large enough that I could have 4 tanks like mine filled to the rim with corals and clams and still have plenty of room to go.

[H20ENG]

dgasmd,
How are your phosphate levels using crushed coral? I'm curious how much it adds compared to the specialized media.
Thanks!
Chris

[dgasmd]

I do know it adds a tiny amount of PO4. I do ahve PO4 problems right now, but I believe the bulk of it comes from another source: my saturated DSB and bioload. I have a lot of fish and I feed very heavily. I don't have as much flow in my tank as I would like it to because of the DSB (causes milkshakes). The DSB is also saturated to the point I ahve a perpetual algae bloom going. I use PO4 removing media constantly and it helps tremendously.
My system is going to get a complete tear down hopefully in about 4 months or so since I will ahve to move and I plan to fish some of these problems. Hopefully, neither algae or PO4 will be an issue then since there will be enough flow to remove even my 4 top layers of skin when I get my hands in the tank!!!!!!!!

[H20ENG]

Thanks.
Maybe you could vacuum the bed in little sections at a time?

[bernie lyons]

Hello folks,
Another advantage of having the media in suspension is that the media crashes into one another and breaks up into smaller
particals thus allowing for faster disolvability under very acidic
conditions(reactor chamber)Cheers-bernie lyons
P.S.- I own a Deltec PF-600s reactor,Deltec AP-1003 skimmer and
a Deltec kalkreactor!I must like their stuff-eh!!!canadian

[ABahn]

canadian? you mean german...
;)

[bernie lyons]

HI ABahn,
the EH! is definetaly canadian!!!
cheers-bernie