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M.Dandaneau
11/06/2003, 10:30 PM
Another strange thought popped up the other day that I thought I'd enquire about (completely unexpected, eh?**grin**).
Perhaps someone ought to delve a little into what the individuals just starting out have for personal goals that could help them go in the direction of their choice with as little trouble as possible.
While the majority probably just want pretty fish swimming around, some individuals go out of their way to establish as closley as they can a natural environment ( I plead guilty to being a fanatic here), while others want the pristine, bleached coral look that, admittadly, can be aesthetically pleasing, and yet others the "giant fishbowl look" with scuba divers, shipwrecks, etc.
While it may seem to be a minor point, there are many species of fish, and even corals that will work better in one type than another, and many, myself included, occassionally to often forget that the other point of view isn't always wrong, just different.

EdKruzel
11/07/2003, 11:15 AM
Mike,
I agree that different isn't always wrong; however, in the case of the sterile bleached coral heads, aren't we supposed to be educating the masses on that evil practice.

Any curio equals death. You don't see dried frags on the shelf for sale. You see big large coral heads.

I've seen dried Blue Ridge over 24''s high, and Staghorn the size of a medicine ball.

If someone wants to go other than natural, we need to push fiberglass or plastic ornaments into their thought process.

In most cases being able to articulate why a certain system setup is the most appropriate for the owner will persuade even the most stubborn hobbyist.

Take care,
Ed

M.Dandaneau
11/07/2003, 12:37 PM
I'm in full agreement on that point Ed, and although the difference is important, both still fit into the "sterile" environment scenario relying on any LR in the sump and/or refugium, if used at all.
I'm constantly amazed at the number of people who want an immaculate appearing tank and start out relying on mechanical filtration only.......as can be assumed, many place little importance or value on the fish except as "swimming pretties" that are easily replaced when they expire.
I've yet to find a way to get through to individuals of this type.
Here in Florida, we have cities full of individuals who think all wildlife ought to be erradicated in favor of a completely sterile and "safe" world, many more than I ever dreamed possible.
Likewise, it's staggering the number of people who won't swim in the ocean because of all the fish and "creatures", insisting on swimming pools only (probably why there are so many, eh?)

M.Dandaneau
11/07/2003, 11:24 PM
As many responsible people as there are that truly love the hobby, they are ,I'm afraid, vastly outnumbered by those with more money than conscience, and sadder still, those with plenty of conscience, but just aren't quite "with it" enough to comprehend even the basics.
In today's world, dogs are traded in on a whim and cats abandoned in huge numbers, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize huge numbers of fish are going for a ride on the ceramic water slide when the novelty wears off.
IMO, anyone who can be encouraged to enjoy a complete ecosystem is much more liable to remain with and benefit from and to the hobby as a whole.
Without digressing too much, a thought for some of the reefers, if I may.
If one fixates too much on perfect animals for a reef system, it leaves many with FO or FOWLR tanks in a panic when they find a bristleworm in the tank or their less than perfect wet/dry filter needs tweaking.....in this category, many beautiful tanks are run with tap water and a decent (not the best) skimmer, and if newbies can be encouraged through this, the day they HAVE to have a EuroReef skimmer is more likely to come, and the less likely they are to go into culture shock over price tags.

EdKruzel
11/08/2003, 02:12 PM
Mike,
I whole heartedly agree with you and believe that an ecosystem can be achieved with the FO people as well.

With the proper education and planning, a FO/FOWLR can be so simple it boggles the mind as to why there aren't more of these systems out there.

With Automatic Top-Off's, Grade "A" Skimmers, the use of live rock and deep sand beds in a sump we can be practically maintenance free on any FO set-up.

Some Basic Rules:
(Above all Knowledge & Patience)(Research, Research, Research)

1. Research the livestock and compatibility.
2. Have adequate space for the tank and equipment.
3. Purchase all intended equipment before adding the first drop of water. Don't skimp on the price of the equipment, you get what you pay for.
4. Always up any recommendations. (ie. Need filtration for a 75gal, purchase something large enough for a 125gal.)
(Fish requires "X" amount of territorial space, purchase a tank at least one and a half times larger).

Of course there are a million details that can be attached to each comment, however if kept within the thought process, these simple rules can make any beginner successful.

Impulse purchases, and the intention of upgrading at a later time causes more death and headaches than all other problems combined for our hobby.

Happy Fish Keeping,
Ed

ATJ
11/08/2003, 05:24 PM
This is the advice I give for tank planning: Planning a Tank (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/tankplan.html).

The most important thing is understanding the requirements of the organisms you want to keep and build the tank around them.

Unfortunately, you can't change peoples characters or motives. If they are the sort of person that wants a tank as a piece of furniture that's what they want.