Costs of larger tanks (time and money)

[-Keith-]

I know that $30 / gal to set up a normal-sized reef tank is a common estimate and that actual cost varies widely. What about for larger tanks? Are there economies of scales for larger tanks or does the cost scale linearly (e.g., twice the gals -> twice teh cost)? Any one willing to share their actual costs for some larger reef set ups?

What about time required for maintenance and such?


-Keith

[Nanook]

With housing mods, tanks, equipment and liverock, I get $37/gallon...that number will probably go up to $50-60/gallon after livestock.

Nanook

[sabodish]

i think im right about $35/gallon for my 400 gallon....once you get to a certain size, the cost for equipment really doesn change much...ie, a $500 skimmer would probably run a 200 gallon or a 300 gallon tank..same thing for halides..4 halides on a 400 or 4 on a 225..rock and corals is where all the cash goes after that point is reached
-mike

[VegasMike]

I am at $22 per gallon for my 450 so far. This includes tank, stand, skimmer, Kalk reactor, second chamber for existing calcium reactor, lighting, pumps, liter meter, sump, plumbing parts and Tunze system. I anticipate spending another $2 per gallon for more lighting (I am holding off to see what I really think is necessary). I will also need to spend another $2+ for a chiller.

I am converting my existing 150 to a refugium so I will be able to use that 200+ lbs of live rock in the new tank. I am not saving much by doing this since I would have gone the stock tank route if I did not have this tank already. I will probably buy another 150 lbs of live rock and new sand, 1" for the main tank and 4"-6" for the refugium.

I also did not include the cost of the house addition in these figures which would have added over $200 per gallon.:D :rollface: :D

[-Keith-]

Sabodish,

Is the $35/gallon for a up and running (stoclked) tank or just major equipments like Nanook's $37/gal.

All, Thanks for the $/gal #'s.

Any comments on the amount of time required to set up / maintain a 300-400 gallon tank compared to say a 100 gallonish tank? I assume that it not 3-4 times as much as a 100, but is it significantly more than the 100?

[sabodish]

keith..that is stocked...granted, my tank isnt slammed full of corals and fish..but i think i have around 40 or so corals and 12 fish

[Salt-Reefer]

Right now for just equipment I'm at around $30 a gal.

[eljefe3]

Total for everything is about $29/gallon including custom framing of granite and teak.

[dgasmd]

I guess I can't come up with a $/gal figure, so here is a rough stimate for a larger tank. There are all ballpark figures:

-tank 120x48x24 in 1" acrylic $5500
-stand $300 (diy)
-cover for stand $350 (DIY)
-canopy $300 (DIY)
-5x400 watt MH e-ballasts $680
-5 lumenarc reflectors $600
-5 ushio 10000K bulbs $500
-actinic VHO lighitng including bulbs $600
-canopy fans $50-60
-bulkheads, plumbing, unions, eductors, valves, etc $350
-iwaki 100 return pump $340
-4 sequence 5800 gal pumps for close loops $1600
-dual 100 gpd RO/DI unit with a pressure pump $400
-custom Ca reactor with CO2 equipment and such $450
-custom skimmer with dual becket injectors $450
-iwaki 100 for skimmer $340
-custom kalk reactor $120
-litermeter for top off $300
-rubbermaid containers for refugium (300 gal) and sump (100 gal) $300
-lighting for refugium $50
-100 gal water changes container $80
-pump for mixing and water changes $120
-1 HP chiller $1200
-3x500 watt heaters $150
-temperature controller $100

Then, add LR and livestock.$???????

Total is about $15,240 plus the LR and livestock. Now, you and I know we would be looking for a lot of this stuff used from others and also would DIY as much as possible. however, cost is going to be upthere.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[TropTrea]

That comes to 600 gallons at 15240. add 600 lbs of live rock at barain basement price of $3.00 per pound adds $1800. Fro a total of 17,000 or just under $28.50 per gallon.

Now from your list I"d take a few things out that everyone does not need like the chiller, 200 gpd of RO/DI water (40 gpd should be enough for this system). That pulls out $1,300.00 droping it to $15,700. or $26.00 per gallon.

If you want to add livestock and stay under $30.00 per gallon you have $18000 to work with or $2,300 for coral and other stocking needs.

Now try and put together a 75 gallon reef at $30.00 per gallon or $2250. Yes I do believe that the bigger you go in most cases the cost per gallon drops even though the total price rises.


Dennis


Originally posted by dgasmd
I guess I can't come up with a $/gal figure, so here is a rough stimate for a larger tank. There are all ballpark figures:

-tank 120x48x24 in 1" acrylic $5500
-stand $300 (diy)
-cover for stand $350 (DIY)
-canopy $300 (DIY)
-5x400 watt MH e-ballasts $680
-5 lumenarc reflectors $600
-5 ushio 10000K bulbs $500
-actinic VHO lighitng including bulbs $600
-canopy fans $50-60
-bulkheads, plumbing, unions, eductors, valves, etc $350
-iwaki 100 return pump $340
-4 sequence 5800 gal pumps for close loops $1600
-dual 100 gpd RO/DI unit with a pressure pump $400
-custom Ca reactor with CO2 equipment and such $450
-custom skimmer with dual becket injectors $450
-iwaki 100 for skimmer $340
-custom kalk reactor $120
-litermeter for top off $300
-rubbermaid containers for refugium (300 gal) and sump (100 gal) $300
-lighting for refugium $50
-100 gal water changes container $80
-pump for mixing and water changes $120
-1 HP chiller $1200
-3x500 watt heaters $150
-temperature controller $100

Then, add LR and livestock.$???????

Total is about $15,240 plus the LR and livestock. Now, you and I know we would be looking for a lot of this stuff used from others and also would DIY as much as possible. however, cost is going to be upthere.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Geepers Creepers]

-TANK-
*180 gal. AGA
tank with
overflowes
-FILTRATION-
*Ecosystem SYS 3616 A-M Acrylic sump
-WATER MOVEMENT-
*Two maxi-jet
295 gph power heads
*Three Gen x
pcx40 1190gph.
waterpumps
*Tsunami wave maker
-LIGHTING-
*One 175 watt
metal halide
*Two 160 watt.
VHO super actinics
*Four 75 watt.
VHO 50/50s
*Two 660
Ice Cap ballast
*Solar 1000 L2
-Water Purification-
*Kent RO unit
*Two float valves
*44 gallon water
storage container
-Heater-
*350 W. Pro Heat II
Aquarium heater
with LED. display.
-plumbing-
*PVC
$28 to $30 a gallon Empty tank

I’d hate to try and figure it out with everything in it:eek2:
I try not to think about it!:D

Cool tank! eljefe3
I want one!:thumbsup:

[dgasmd]

Originally posted by TropTreaEtc
Now from your list I"d take a few things out that everyone does not need like the chiller, 200 gpd of RO/DI water (40 gpd should be enough for this system). That pulls out $1,300.00 droping it to $15,700. or $26.00 per gallon.
Dennis

Dennis:

I disagree with you on this. I have a 360 gal tank with 200 gal in sump/refugium and 4x400 watt MH bulbs and my temp does rise to the challenge. I currently don't have a chiller, but have to keep my eye on the temp intensely. I have added more fans that I care for and leave my garage door open as much as possible when allowed to permit extra evaporation and cooling on the refugium and sump. Trust me on this one: You will need a chiller if you want to keep your temps at 1 degree max swings.
As for the RO/DI unit, I do disagree as well. You need to be able to make a large water change in a moment of emergency and waiting around for a week to be able to have enough water for it is not an option when you ahve an investment like this. Plus, if you are going to make water changes like I do religiously after learning my lessons the hard way not doing them, you will also need more water available than what a little 40 GPD unit can do.
As for the cost of livestock, I would try a figure more like $5K at least. And that is assuming we are going to start with mostly if not all frags.:eek1: :eek1: :eek1:

[dgasmd]

I guess I forgot about the other part of your question: time. The following is my schedule:
Daily
Feed fish----5 minutes literraly
Check system over before going to work and when coming home--40 sec total.
Every 3 days
Clean skimmer----- 5-7 minutes
Pass the magnet----2-4 minutes
Weekly
Water change----7-8 minutes
Make up water changing water and top off water----2-5 minutes to turn on the RO/DI unit, switch from one drum to another, and mix the salt.
Trrim refugium--- is every 3 weeks actually but it takes less than 5 minutes.
Blow with powerhead on rocks----5-10 minutes.
Monthly
Clean bulbs----10 minutes
Every 3-4 months
Take the canopy off and scrape all the corraline algae off----12-16 hours!!!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[TropTrea]

The chiller depends a lot on how much lighting you have, how much air circulation and where your located. I can definatly see in warmer climates where it is a necisity. However in color climates where room air temps can be kept in the 60's it would not be as much of a problem Sure in some cases chillers are a must but not always.

As for the RO size. I had up to 3,000 of fresh water tanks going for me at one time with each getting a 10% water change every 10 days . That means 300 gallons of ro water every 10 days or 30 gallons per day. Besides that I had evaporation and had to keep RO in reserve for emergencies. My system consisted of feeding the RO water into a 150 gallon reseviour or holding tank that was also heated so I did not have a drastic temp change when adding water. Believe me a 60 gpd unit handled it no problem.


Live stock cost can probably vary all over the place. Sure one can spend $500 for one piece of coral or they can get a frag of it for $50 and watch it grow for them. How many corals do you want in your tank some are happy with a dozen others want 100,.

Dennis


Originally posted by dgasmd
Dennis:

I disagree with you on this. I have a 360 gal tank with 200 gal in sump/refugium and 4x400 watt MH bulbs and my temp does rise to the challenge. I currently don't have a chiller, but have to keep my eye on the temp intensely. I have added more fans that I care for and leave my garage door open as much as possible when allowed to permit extra evaporation and cooling on the refugium and sump. Trust me on this one: You will need a chiller if you want to keep your temps at 1 degree max swings.
As for the RO/DI unit, I do disagree as well. You need to be able to make a large water change in a moment of emergency and waiting around for a week to be able to have enough water for it is not an option when you ahve an investment like this. Plus, if you are going to make water changes like I do religiously after learning my lessons the hard way not doing them, you will also need more water available than what a little 40 GPD unit can do.
As for the cost of livestock, I would try a figure more like $5K at least. And that is assuming we are going to start with mostly if not all frags.:eek1: :eek1: :eek1:

[aqua_obs]

Does anyone have figures about how much / mo their bills went up? I figure running MH is costing me $40/mo more on my little tank. Anyone have figures on bills and how to keep them undercontrol? I'd love to run in some natural sunlight a couple hours a day and cut the cost of lighting.

[-Keith-]

dgasmd,

"Every 3-4 months
Take the canopy off and scrape all the corraline algae off----12-16 hours!!!"

Ouch. That must hurt. I'm guessing it takes so long because your tank is acrylic and you need to be careful of scratches. If this is the reason, would you recommend glass instead? I know the typical cons on glass tanks at this size (weight and cost), but too days of scrapping is outa control.

[dgasmd]

No. it takes me that long because by then the entire tank is completely covered and I can barely tell there is anything inside. I think I may take a bit more overall because it is acrylic with a DSB, but not significantly more.
I would never get a glass tank, ever, with anything beyong 200 gal. It is just ludicrous in my opinion. Then again, it is only my opinion.

[Scuba_Dave]

I'm just starting out, approx 500g total tanks (multiple tanks, not one big one). I'm at $10g and won't have all of the tanks filled until next summer. If you dont count the empty tanks I'll be at $20g, & starting to add more corals end of Dec to a 250-300g setup.

[memito]

[i]
I would never get a glass tank, ever, with anything beyong 200 gal. It is just ludicrous in my opinion. Then again, it is only my opinion. [/B]

I am just wondering, why exactly wouldn't you go with glass above a 200 gallon tank?

Thanks!

[-=DieselDave=-]

I'm @ $51/gal on my almost 180(175 bowfront) that is not running yet.
however my little 37 gal comes in at well over the $80/gal.