Iwasaki Lighting

[minfinger]

Just cause I don't want to hog up my propigation thread...

What's the deal with these better than god bulbs?

Is a 250W light an extremely large amount of light for 12" water? Will these do the growth I'm looking for? What about 400W Bulbs?

And what kind of of the special ballasts am I supposed to use? Some one told me that you have to have a certain kind of ballast to be able to properly power the bulb. Something about a larger KHz rating or something?

[Alberio]

The 250 Iwasaki would be great for a P-tank with 12" of water if you're doing SPS.

The Iwasakis actually require a mercury vapor ballast. It's actually cheaper than a metal halide ballast. I believe that Icecap MH ballast will also run the bulbs.

MJD

[minfinger]

Well I was going to raise the egg crate up about 6"s from the bottom of the tank. Then put about 3" of South Down in the bottom of each tank.

Is there some where online that I can get the mercury vapor ballast?

Edit:
I just found these, will these do it?
http://www.residential-landscape-lighting-design.com/store/PPF/parameters/1435_268/more_info.asp

http://www.bulbs.com/products/product_detail.asp?page=ballasts&inventory=9406

http://www.1000bulbs.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=5142

[ReefSC]

Supposedly Iwasakis are a mercury vapor bulb, but they have been purposely fitted w/ a MH base and can be run w/ any of the electronic ballasts. I have heard it is not worth the trouble to run a MV ballast. You may want to check some info on Iwasaki color, many people dislike the extreme yellow tint they give off. They are supposed to get the quickest growth, but not the prettiest color from sps. If you do choose these bulbs you will probably want to add large amounts of actinic to offset the yellow. You might be better of with ushio 10,000K bulbs if you don't want to add supplemental actinic.

[ReefSC]

Try cooltouchlighting's E-bay store for good prices on completely wired ballast's and/or retrofit kits.

[Simbo18]

Wowa now Randy, that is my advice, I already told him about the Cooltouch lighting.:p

Luke

[ReefSC]

Found a fully assembled ballast that will push iwasaki to the fullest. Check http://www.marinedepot.com/a_lt_mh_pfo.asp?CartId=.This ballast will only push iwasaki. A regular ballast will push an iwasaki just not quite as bright, but if you end up not liking the spectrum of the bulb you can change it unlike the PFO EYE ballast.

[ReefSC]

I am going to correct myself after further research but I wasn't too far off. I was correct about marine depot and their MV ballast. But I was wrong about any other ballast working. The only ballast that will power any bulb is an electric ballast and the ones at cool touch lighting are a form of magnetic. Electric ballasts are more expensive but you can use any bulb you like including DE bulbs. APO and IceCap make electric ballasts. So if you want iwasaki's (wich is what I plan on using when I buy and set up my 125-180g) you should probably use electric ballasts. The initial cost will be offset in the long run as they run cooler and are more efficient.

[minfinger]

What about hte mercury vapor ballasts....Aren't these mercury vapor bulbs?

[ReefSC]

hte?

[ReefSC]

The ballasts that power iwasaki's on the marine depot site have the designation eye, and only work with iwasaki's the electronic ballasts will power any bulb

[minfinger]

OK..So I have to use the EYE...then...Hmm...

Any thoughts on running more than 1 250W bulb on a single Ballast. Can I use a 400W ballast and run 3 250W bulbs or use a 1000W ballast and run 4 bulbs.

[skipm]

I am not 100% sure about that one but I do not think it works like that. Plus if it overloaded the ballast it would be a costly repair. If you ar elooking for some cheap MH lighting check out the C-MAC forum, one of the members there had MH ballasts (the industrial styled ones) in 250 and 400 watts for like $25 each. These of course are for regular MH bulbs and not the Iwasakis. I have always been under the impression that the Iwasakis are good for SPS growth but have never heard anything about them increasing growth rates in softies. HTH, SKip

[ReefSC]

You won't be able to double up on MH ballast like that, but they do sell double ballasts on the above link. As far as those cheap ballasts skip saw, they are probably magnetic which will not run iwasaki's correctly. Those ballasts will pretty mush limit you to SE bulbs from 10,000-20,000K. You will not reap any of the par benefits from the Iwasaki's. The eye ballast will only run an Iwasaki. An electronic ballast will run any SE or DE bulb you would ever want to run. I am including this link so you can get an idea of the color the iwasaki's put off before you buy a ballast that will only power them. I know you've heard it before but lighting is the one thing you never want to skimp on when it comes to a reef tank. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254667
Randy

[skipm]

Randy,
Have you ever messed around with the single ended MHs? I am considering trying them on my 92 gallon corner tank. I haven't decided for sure whether to go with the 250s or the 150s though. Do you have any experience or know of someone who has used them before? What were thier/your experiences and would you recommend using them again? Thanks in advance, Skip

[Troy182]

skip
dont you mean double ended

[minfinger]

Here's what I found:
PFO Makes a Mecury Vapor Ballast that's designated as an "EYE" Ballast. I think they're the only ones that make that type of ballast that's "designed" for fish tanks. If you buy a EYE Ballast, you can only run Mercury Vapor bulbs on it. The reason to buy the "EYE" Ballast is that the 250W & 400W Iwasaki bulbs have a built in ignitor. The 70W and 150W Iwasaki bulbs do not and can be run on standard ballasts.

Any Iwasaki will run on a Standard MH Ballast, but it shortens the life of the bulb. This happens because the standard MH Ballasts have ignitors built in and it's like a double fire.

Best I can tell is that I can pick up any Mercury Vapor / EYE Ballast and run a 250W or 400W Iwasaki bulb. The ballasts that I was looking at online don't have the metal cases, but you don't really need it. I might be wrong, but I think all that matters is that you have to proper Ballast to run the right bulb. It doesn't have to be "Fish designated", does it? I'd love to get one and do some light testing, but I don't have the testers.

Also, there are claims and opinions that the MV/EYE Ballasts run the Iwasaki bulbs brighter than the standard MH Bulbs. I guess that comes back to the double firing issue.

[ReefSC]

Mike,
You got the idea, but, The electronic ballast will run the Iwasakis and fire them properly. You will get slightly less light but you are already talking super bright with a 250w MH over 12" of water. A 250 will light as deep as 36" in a 2'x2' cube. You will be able to grow anything under that in 12" of water. I am still sticking by the electronic ballast (APO or IceCap) because if you don't like the color of the 6,500 you can switch to anything else. Did you check the bulb colors on the link I sent?

Skip,
I have pretty good knowledge and experience with SE bulbs but I think you might be refering to DE bulbs. DE's must be used with reflectors that are special to them. They can be a little more costly to set up and sometimes take up more space, but get more light (PAR) per watt than the SE's. If I'm not mistaken the 92g is 30". I would go with 250's if you are talkin about SE or DE. At this depth you need the light if you are going keep sps, clams maybe on the substrate. A neat light system would be to use 3 250w MH pendants suspended over an open tank. Two 20,000's in the front and a 6'500 in the back of the triangle. With this mix of color spectrum you would get the beautiful blues and benefit from the 6,500 with rapid sps growth. You wouldn't even need to supplement with actinic.

Sorry for the long post. Just hope some of the info helps.

Randy

[skipm]

Thanks for corrcting me, I did mean the double ended bulbs. Thanks for the info Randy. Skip

[robwsup]

Mike,
I run Iwasaki's. They run absolutely fine on a metal halide ballast. It is best to get the metal halide magnetic ballast. They are only a few dollars more ($5-$10) and will also run Ushio, AB, CoralVue, XM, Hamilton and others. The MV ballast will run Iwasaki. only. For prop tanks many people are swearing by Ushio's. Their par is about 20% less than Iwasaki's, but much higher than any other reef bulbs. The added benefit is that you end up with colored corals, not brown corals. I switched back to an Iwasaki on one side of my reef. A M. capricornus that was lime green under 20k XM changed to tan in less than a week. Now it is under an AB 10k and is slowly "greening up".

Give me a buzz tonight 803-641-9678. I got my ERI order in. It looks fairly good. I got a couple corals that I have no idea what they are, but they are bright orange. When I say bright, I actually mean BRIGHT.

Rob

[minfinger]

ReefSC,

Yeah I saw that link...Looks good.

Rob,

I was talking to the LFS today...I agree on the Iwasaki looking yellow and killing the color. I like the color of the Ushio bulbs with the Actinics in that link...I guess I'll go with that. :( :D

[minfinger]

Ushio bulbs and pricing I found

Item.........................Quantity..Price.........Total
175W Ushio.............4..............$69.95.....$279.80
250W Ushio.............2..............$94.95.....$189.90
36" Reflector............3..............$44.95.....$134.85
PFO Dual Ballast...... 3..............$157.95...$473.85
...........................................................$1,078.40


Unless anyone has any other sights that are cheaper. I did check Cool touch, he was a little bit cheaper on the bulbs.

[robwsup]

How about this:
$55 for dual 250w ballast
$29 each for Hellolights parabolic reflector + socket
250w Ushio, maybe Hellolights has a better price, if so, not by much
$5.00 wire/plug from the Depot

The CoralVue bulbs are nice too, and ~$50. Ushio wins on PAR though.

[minfinger]

Hmm...That will run the Ushio Bulb?

[robwsup]

Yes, all except Radium. Some say they are iffy on AB 10k's but I am running 2 AB 10k's on them right now.

Rob

[minfinger]

Rob,

What do you know about double ended Ushio bulbs. In another thread I have going, this guy said that the DE Ushio bulbs burn brighter than the Mogul bubls. Is that true?

[robwsup]

DE bulbs (250w) require a M181 ballast, which is the closest we have to a true HQI ballast. I think the 400w DE use a High Pressure Sodium Ballast.

[ReefSC]

An electric ballast will run ANY bulb. DE SE or differen't spectrum which is why I keep recommending them. Any change you want to make in the future you can make if you use an electric ballast!!!!!!!!!!

[robwsup]

ReefSC,
You mean an electronic ballast, we are speaking of magnetic ballasts of which there are a few different kinds suited to different bulbs.

The electronic ballasts will run any bulb. I can get magnetic ballasts all say long for $25. The cheapest I have seen electronics is $140. Also, electronic ballasts do not run many bulbs at full output since they are built to light any bulb.

[dvmsn]

I run two SE 250 watt Iwasaki's on my tank. I am very happy with how they affect growth but HATE the washed out color. I run 10k German bulbs on my 30 and am verry happy with it. After I moved corals from the 175 10k to the 65K 250's, the growth took off, but the colors definately washed out.

[minfinger]

Dave,

Then you move your corals to a higher PAR and lower Spectrum bulb, right? And that's why the color washed out and the growth took off.

[robwsup]

Lower kelvin temp does the washing out, higher par runs up the growth rate.

[dvmsn]

I agree. High PAR = growth. Low K = Ugly

[skipm]

That makes alot of sense to me now, I used to always think wattage instead of PAR. Thanks guys. Skip

[dvmsn]

I think you will find these articles helpful.

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1998/nov/features/1/default.asp

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/dec/features/2/default.asp

As you can see PAR is related to wattage as well as the type of bulb you are using. The abbysmal results of the 20K bulb in these0 makes me question the effectiveness of the Radium 12K. IMO the 20k looks a whole lot like the 12K.

[dvmsn]

Here is another useful thread http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254667&highlight=radium+20K