Breeding orchid dottyback with popeye

[Bass_Cadet]

Jeez, life can change so quickly and dramatically.

I had a sixty gallon tank with a Singapore angel, pairs of fire and scarlet cleaner shrimp and pairs of pygmy angels (Centropyge argi) and orchid dottybacks (Pseudochromis fridmani). They all seemd to get along (had them all over 8-9 months). The shrimp are regularly carrying eggs, and the dottybacks have been spaning since October. I believe the angelfish were also spawning but never collected or attempted to raise any fry. I finally set up rotifer and phytoplankton cultures and was collecting wild plankton trying to raise the orchid dottyback fry. I am still getting the hang of it but think there is one 21 day old fry surviving.

Then, about two weeks ago, the male C. argi developed an extended abdomen and died after I quarantined him. I believe he died of piscine TB. I removed the Singapore angel and (OK, stupid move here) bought two flame angels (C. loriculus). They seemed OK and the dottybacks spawned again.

But now: the male dottyback has popeye. I caught him and put him in quaratine but have no idea what to do. I think he might have TB also and will buy Maracyn II and try treating him tonight.

Is this the most effective medicine? Should I also try copper? I really want to save him. Also, should I try separating the female dottyback from the angelfish? I want to continue breeding these fish but can't treat the whole tank with the shrimp in there (with copper, anyways).

As you can tell, I have very little experience with fish disease.

Thanks for any help,
greg

[Terry B]

Doesn't sound like TB. It usually develops slowly and the fish get ragged and thin first. M2 is the best choice for popeye but a big water change would be my first move.
Terry B

[Bass_Cadet]

I was going off Martin Moe's _Marine Aquarium Handbook_. It seemed to best describe his condition. It does seem to be an internal bacterial infection, but maybe it's not TB. Other books don't really say much other than it's a difficult condition to cure.

I think the cause of all this was trying to lower the salinity too quickly by doing a water change with freshwater. I do regular 10% water changes but will change more in the spawning tank this week.

Thanks for the input. I've learned a painful lesson.

greg

[Terry B]

Popeye and dropsey (enlarged abdomen) are both symptomatic of an internal bacterial infection. Vibro bacteria can give off gas as a by product. This may be what caused both fish to die. If your water quality is high a contagious bacterial infection is unlikely. I wonder, do you use a powerful protein skimmer?
Terry B

[Bass_Cadet]

The male dottyback is still alive. He even looks better and ate a little this morning. I've been treating him with some combo antibiotic (Spectrogram) that's a combination of Kanamycin and nitrofurazone. It turns the water yellow. I was thinking of buying Maracyn II but I talked to the LFS owner and he said it was a weaker antibiotic, maybe more of a prophylactic, and said the other one is better for serious infections. This one seems to be effective but I wonder if I should treat with another one also? I may have access to others.

I do not have a protein skimmer on the spawning tank. It is just live rock, sand from Huntington Beach, and an empty power filter for circulation. I do have a protein skimmer (US Aquariums) on it, but am afraid to turn it on because it has a Rio pump. I intend to buy a replacement pump and start using it again. You bring up a good point, I should have a protein skimmer running.

The other fish and invertebrates look OK. Assuming the male dottyback survives, I may move the dottybacks into a separate 20 gallon tank and let the pygmy angels have the 60 gallon tank.

Thanks again.

greg

[Bass_Cadet]

Update:

The male dottyback seems to have recovered. I treated him with Spectrogram for 6 days (three doses every other day as recommended). I then caught the female when she swam into the spawning den and moved both to a separate 20 gallon tank. They seem to be OK. I don't know if they've spawned recently but the male does visit the spawning den.

The 60 gallon tank is left with the pgymy angels (two Centropyge loriculus and one C. argi) and cleaner shrimps. I still haven't restarted the protein skimmer but may try it this weekend.

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There is one remaining orchid dottyback fry. I think it is about 36 days old and either undergoing or very close to metamorphosis. I have been collecting and feeding wild plankton regularly but haven't taken good care of it otherwise. It may be late in undergoing metamorphosis because I've been away several weekends and haven't fed it well. I thought it died on Monday because it wasn't moving at all, but after blowing it around with a turkey baster (yes, I'm still making mistakes) I noticed it was still breathing. It is about 15mm with not much coloration.

greg

[Terry B]

Nitrofurazone would have been my second choice. It is a good antibiotic and I used to use Spectogram. I just feel that M2 is a better choice for Popeye and bloat because it is one of the few antibiotics that passes the blood/brain barrier.
Terry B

[Bass_Cadet]

I have to admit the main reason I went with Spectrogram instead of M2 was cost. Spectrogram cost $4.99 versus M2's $19.99. I really thought the dottyback was headed for the rose garden.

about.com had an article about popeye the day after I posted (I bought the medicine the day I posted) and they had positive comments about Spectrogram so I decided to just try that and skip the M2. If I ever get around to mail ordering, I will buy some M2 (~$10) for emergencies.

The orchid dottybacks are doing well and I think the female is developing eggs.

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The lone larvae is still alive at 42 days. It has a small purple patch on its abdomen and is becoming darker overall. I think its organs are developing.

greg

[Bass_Cadet]

Not sure who's interested but thought I'd post a final update.

The male orchid dottyback seems to have recovered 100%--the pair spawned today in their PVC den and he was taking care of the egg ball but came out to eat. I guess he's feeling comfortable in the 20 gallon (just the pair of dottybacks and a peppermint shrimp).

As far as the surviving larva, it's probably not a larva any more. I think it finished metamorphosis and is now a juvenile. It started swimming on Friday after quite a long settlement period. It does tend to stay at the bottom still and hasn't changed color completely but the internal organs look developed. I'm hoping growout is quick. It seems to eat frozen food particles.

greg

[jameso]

Hey Frank,

Good to see that you have Terry B here to help you out in this forum. Should ease your load a lot.

Hi Terry! Welcome to reefcentral.

Cheers
James Wiseman

[FMarini]

Hi james:
yes it's a big help and since his experiences are so vast and broad-ranging it helps everywhere.

james care to share your psuedo breeding experiences w/ us.
Can you elucidate on how your sexing was done, describe the actual pairing up event, followed by the spawning?
thanks
frank