Calurpa Algae...I'm at my whits end

[Bubafat]

ok, everyone says it's so damn good...i hate the crap. I've been doing my best to get rid of it with no luck. I have a 46 bow tank, lots of coral, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 pepermint shrimp, and about 20 snails. I don't know what to do to get rid of this crap. it's the small bubble type and holds tight to the rocks so it's a pain if the butt to prune, but i do rip a lot of it out. i won't put a tang in so don't recomend it. I also hate hermits so don't bother there either. i have 2 mintrax crabs that do eat some but they're to small to really make any difference. for additives and food, i feed 1/4-1/2 of a cube of frozen food 1 time a day. i does 1/4 the recomended ammount of C-balance (kind of like bionic), i add a little iodine once in a while, a little strontium, and i drip kalkwasser. I also have a nice big skimmer that pulls out a lot of crap. I do have a ton of lighting but i won't reduce that cause i've seen this stuff grow under NO lamps plus i need it for my sps and xenia corals. I get very good growth of corraline algae and great growth from my xenai and sps corals, actually, all of my corals are growing fast (cept my shrooms and polypes for some reason, they grow, but they don't spread, any ideas here?). I'd like to get a refugium or a sump going but i don't really trust the hang on overflows, too big of a risk. Anyone know of any good ones? if i did get one going, what should i put in the sump, should i put live rock in there, sand, skimmer only, how do i separate these compartements. wow, i've been doing this for 4 years, i propagate my own damned corals but i can't even control something as like algae. fwiw, i don't have a problem with any other type of micro algae, cept for a thin film of a hard green algae on my glass which my snails take care of. I don't add squat for organics, i do 10% water change every other week, and i have one hell of a skimmer that pulls out a decent ammount of stuff, and i harvest all this algae. ahhhhhhhh!!!!
help
thanks
buba

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Have fun and happy reefing. "The goal in life is to reach pure happieness." Aristotle

[Heater_Engineer]

Ah the joy of calurpa pruning, not only did I have grape, I had razor, sea grapes and the thin leaf kind and the kind that looked like a mushroom. Pruned (3) times a week for 6 months, I kid you not. A buddy of mine couldn't even get it to live in his tank, lucky bum.

This is how I solved my problem. I purchased (1) Fox Face Rabbit Fish. Very shy at first, skittish for at least a week, but now (2) months later no calurpa algae and one fat fox face. This fish turned out to be my favorite. Greets me when I walk into the room and color changing. I can tell his mood by his coloration. Only one draw back, spines are poisonous but I think it was probably one of my smartest fish purchase. I've rambled enough. If you need me to I could send you my pruning shears :D.

Hope this helps..............Stacy

[Rebel]

If you are planning to build a refugium I would recommend using livesand and rock. Just take out the rocks that have the caluerpa on them and put those in the refugium where you want the algae to grow--and replace the LR in your tank. You may have to re-attach some corals, but you'll be helping two sides of the issue at once. Good luck.
Jason

[Bubafat]

hey rebel, i can't put all my rocks into my refugium!! :) and i don't know about putting a foxface into my tank, for one thing they get pretty big and there is nothing i hate more then putting a fish that gets big in too small of a tank (i work at a petstore, i don't sell goldfish to people with small tanks, i've gotten yelled at it, but hey, i've probably saved lots of lives). I just think that even if i put a small foxface in my tank it would stress him out more and more as he grew and i don't want that. as for a refugium what would be some good cheap lights for it and how long should i keep them on, nights only, 24/7, like dusk to dawn? I don't want to add any heat to my tank either so what should i use for lighting in there. and what about an overflow, what should i use there? thanks everyone.
buba

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Have fun and happy reefing. "The goal in life is to reach pure happieness." Aristotle

[Snailman]

What you have is a green alga not Caulerpa. It is called bubble alga, Valonia ventricosa. Baensch in Marine Atlas 1 says "Impeccable waterquality is need to maintain them (sae salt composition). Phosphate and nitrate free water is necessary." So the good new is your tank must be in good shape otherwise. :)

[Agu]

Bubafat, First we have to know what type of alga you have. If it's grape caulerpa (racemosa), rent a tang from your employer for a few weeks. You'll return a very healthy tang to the store. If it's valonia, I've heard it has some predators, but have no personal experience so won't make a suggestion. John Rice,s website has an extensive algae ID section, check it out. Sorry but I don't know the url.

[Agu]

OOPS, check out "algae ID needed"post, the url is there for the web page. Moderators, can you get permission to put that site in the library?

[Bubafat]

ok, snailman, i don't mean to be mean but i know what valonia algae is, this is not. i know you don't know how much i know and you were just going off of what i wrote but you should assume that if i have sps and xenia growing i've done this for a while, 5 years.
ok. now that we got that down, i don't like putting tangs in my tank because the small size (46) stresses them out, i don't like doing that.

well, any other idea's, anything i may be missing as in excessive nutrients? it's annoying as heck, i have like 5 species of the crap but it's the ones with little grapes that holds tightest to the rock. the feathery kind is second worse.

if you want me to email you with a pic to prove that it's not valonia algae i will (even though the pics are crappy cause they were taken by a really cheap digital camera).

Thanks everyone
buba

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Have fun and happy reefing. "The goal in life is to reach pure happieness." Aristotle

[This message has been edited by Bubafat (edited 04-26-2000).]

[Pikaboo]

I agree with Sandman... the green bubble you have is not Calurpa. It's actually what's commonly known as "Bubble Algea" or Valonia. They are a pain to have in your tank. I have tons in mine.. and trying to get it solved as well. I haven't gotten a Mithrax crab yet.. but will soon.

If you have 2 Mithrax in your tank already... maybe all you need is time for them to grow and eat all your bubble algea.

[Bubafat]

ok guys, IT'S NOT VALONIA, BUBBLE ALGAE, OR SAILER'S EYE ALGAE, i promise.

i have a little of that, i know the difference. btw, the mintraxes don't touch it, i pull off each individual ones in a bucket, the mintraxes seem to prefer the calurpa over the valonia.

here, go to http://www.ffexpress.com/setinverts.htm
then go to plants then to grape calurpa, it looks a little like that (i have that type too but the annoying one has smaller bubbles and is less opake and more green)

buba

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Have fun and happy reefing. "The goal in life is to reach pure happieness." Aristotle

[reefgal]

Bubafat,

What types of macro algae do you like? My thought is, you could grow more of what you DO want and deprive the caulerpa of nutrients. I too have two varieties of caulerpa as well as maiden's hair, red grape, halimeda, bryopsis (what a pain!), and some hitchhikers that came in on the live rock. I harvest all of them as a way of "nutrient export" so I really don't mind. (Except for the bryopsis.) Also, how's your phosphate level? Are you using RO/DI water?

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Now, how do you pronounce (and/or spell) that again?

Reefgal in the desert

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/DeckDr/desertreefer/reefcover.html

[Larry M]

LMAO Bubba--I would be willing to trade something to get some of that Sailor's Eye Algae you have there.

Here's what I think about the calerpa: Either learn to live with it, take out the rock to which it is attached, or just harvest it every so often. I don't think you will eliminate it from the tank for good.

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Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[Aquaman]

Hey Bubafat, You sure its not valona, hehe :D just kidding. I know what you are going through, I had a ton of that and the feather kind in my 55gal reef, pruned a quart container each day! The only suggestion I have would be ... a tang, I know I know you don't want one in your tank because of size restrictions, OK My second suggestion would be ... A BIGGER TANK,, YEA Justification for a new tank what better reason!! ;) I moved my reef from a 55gal to a 125gal reef. I have a sailfin,yellow and a Naso tang, They have taken care of all my algae problems.

[netjerk]

GIVE ME YOUR GRAPE ALGAE! I swear i've been want'n some for a long time now...ironic how some would complain. =)

[Heinrich]

There's a couple of options. Try getting a dwarf angel. That will help a bit. Best choice would be pygmys or Eibels or Flame Backs. Another good option would be a itzy hawaiian bristletooth (Kole) tang. 46 could be O.K. if you got him at 1" to start with. Or another lawnmower blenny. Best choice would be growing some other macroalgae in the sump and still have the caulepa predated on in the main taank. That will slowly solve your problem. I suggest first going same photoperiod then after problem seizes opposite PP in the refugium.
Queen Conchs and Urchins do a good job. Although they're a bit clumsy...
Another good choice is seabunnies. Make sure to have strainers on your suctioncups and overflow. But great plankton producers. What else. More crabs, especially sally lightfoots will eat huge amounts. Another decent algae eater for small tanks are damsels but that can backfire because of aggression. Getting a good growth of amphipods will make help.
Getting more chittons and other snails can make a big difference too.
The main that helps is having an open reef structure. Caulerpa really thrives on high CO2 levels and detritus builup in the rocks. Decomposing detritus without being utilized by animals or bacteria will be used mostly by algae. So see if you have a open structure and not a wall. Also too much LR with too little other nutrient cycling will easily convert the nitrate back into ammonia on the top of the rock and there algae will really have a hayday. Has to do with the small amount of area available in the dense rock.
So try setting up a large sump refugia with a deep sandbed. That will add ecosystem components and help balance the algae.
93! Heinrich

[seaf00d]

Wish I had some grape caulerpa :P The LFS's here get different kinds in now and then and want $20+ bucks for a golf ball sized rock with a couple of paltry clumps on it. I have the feather kind and a couple of great stands of halimeda in my 10G reef at work.

What's interesting though is that I ran this tank with no skimmer for the first six months, and then put a spare Remora Pro on it (yes, on a 10G, its insane!) and with heavy skimming the algae's growth seemed to recede greatly. Perhaps just a coincidence.

Anyways, good luck with your valonia... I mean caulerpa! :p I think your best bet is to go with the refugium idea. If you curtail the growth of the algae in your main tank and encourage the algae in your refugium, you should eventually equate things to your liking.

[Vins Fins]

try a Sail Fin Tang

Vinny

[Agu]

Bubafat, When I recommended a tang it was as a temporary measure. You don't have to marry it with that "til death do we part" bs. If you have that much alga, put a small one in the tank until it's gone, by that time the tang will be so fat you'll need crane just to get it out. Then your store can sell it as a rare "beluga zebrasoma".

[O'Man]

Hey Bubafat:

Please let me know how you got your valonia to branch like that...

Anyway, this one is a longshot, but here it goes. Years ago I had a tank full of that exact same macroalgae. I was getting a hair algae outbreak and decided to put a polyfilter and a bag of phosguard (or x-phosphate maybe) in my filter. The hair algae remained unchanged, but the grape calupera died off completly in a couple of days.

Now I cannot guarantee anything, but a couple of months later I had gotten more grapes, got them growing and had the exact same thing happen.(back then I was trying to grou that stuff) BTW that tank was only lit with NO lighting. I guess if I were to try to repeat that experiment, I would dim the lights for a couple of days.

Luck

[Bubafat]

Ok, Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

It looks like my options are tang, tang, and another tang. i have tried pulling out almost all of it but it grew right back up really quick.

What's the best tang then to eat this crap? Don't say longnosed black tang cause i'm still fuming over the one i had that died. Yes, i got crazy, went to a wholesaler with a friend, saw it at an incredible price (around $130!!) so i bought it, he lasted 2 weeks then unexplicably died, nothing looked wrong, he was eating well, he had no apparent parasites, just kicked the bucket.

Ok, enough ranting, back to my question. What type of tang should i get. yellow, purple, sailfin, naso, kole, yellow shoulder? Or any other that i failed to mention.

Thanks a lot everyone.
Buba

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Have fun and happy reefing. "The goal in life is to reach pure happieness." Aristotle

[Agu]

A small yellow tang, they're hardy when small, they eat like pigs, and they're cheap (relatively speaking). When it gets big you can just move it to the new 180 you set up just for him.