Not happy

[andro]

I think that my tangs have ich. I came home from work today and they are covered in white spots. I hear that hyposalinity is really the only way to cure it. But I do not have another tank that I can quaranteen them in at the moment, do you have any suggestions for curing them in the tank?

1 yellow tang
1 blue tang
2 tomatoe clowns
2 pj cardinal fish
1 cleaner shrimp
2 peppermint shrimp
1 brittle star
100+ green button polyps
turbo snails
hermet crabs


Thanks,
Ian

[ADS]

Ian- Do you still have your other tank? If so, you could set it up as a hospital tank and treat the tangs in it. I could lend you a Magnum HOT filter to circulate. Then you could treat with antibiotics for a couple of days. Some are doing fresh water dips-I would do a search for best treatment methods. Adam

[witowsks]

i have had fish in my tank get ich (damsels, tangs,etc..) i put a crushed clove of garlic in a micron bag and hung it close to a powerhead for good circulation and within a few days all ich was gone.....

[Franks Reef]

Feed with garlic or use focus with some medication. Do you have a UV sterilizer?

[andro]

Adam,

I do still have my 40 gallon, I have to clean it out, because it was in my apartment for 1 month half filled with water, and it got nasty. I will do that tomorrow. I have a fluval that i can use w/o media for circulation. Thanks for the offer on the Magnum.

witowsks Frank,

I am going to get some garlic tomorrow and a bag, soi will try that first, my fish have too many hiding spots that i would have to take out my rock to get them out.

Frank,

I do not have a UV sterilizer, but I read that would kill some of the free floating stuff.


All,

I do not have a micron bag to use right now, what if i put it in my sump right on top of my pump that returns the water to my tank? do you think that would circulate it enough?


Thanks for all of your help, I will keep updating with what I find.

-Ian

[seaham358]

Ian,
I have a 10 gal and a 35gal if you want to borrow them call me tomorrow or tonight before 11pm 914-453-3942, 483-9672 I have a micron bag also you can have and just pick me up a new one the next time your at Eds.
Bob

[witowsks]

if u dont have a micron bag, panythouse work just fine and are alot cheaper....

[andro]

Thanks for the bag and garlic Bob, got it in there now. Hopefully it helps a little bit.

When I got home, my cleaner shrimp was going to town on the Blue Tang.

-Ian

[andro]

I woke up to a house smelling like garlic this morning, not the best smell, but I will deal.

My tangs have had most of their white spots turn into black spots. They both seem to be acting like they normally do at this time of day, they kind of hide in their spots in the rock and come out every now and again. They do not appear to be breathing heavy, so I guess that is a good sign.

The true test is to see how long it takes them to start to eat the nori in the tank, it usually only lasts minutes, now it is approaching 1/2 hour and they have not eaten any of it yet.


-Ian

[vmiller]

I've dealt with plenty of ich. Hyposalinity works great, but involves catching the fish which may make matters worse. I think your best option would be to get UV. As long as the fish are healthy and continue to eat, they can deal with the ich for a while.

Lowering your tank temp may help a bit too. The ich won't reproduce as fast.

You added a twist with the white spots turning black. There is something called black ich, but not sure if this is what it is. I have a paper about this from Scott Michael. I'll look it up.

Vin

[vmiller]

Ian,

Based on the black spots, it might be flukes. PM me with your email address and I'll send you the paper on it.

Vin

[andro]

I just sent you a PM

[seaham358]

Ian can you get a pic of the spots..... and post it

[andro]

Fortunatly, I was wrong about the black spots, but my tangs have not eaten all day, Their breathing is even harder than it was earlier today. I am going to try to get them to a different tank tonight, but that is going to mean that I need to take out some rock or else i will not be able to get the fish out.


Also what i was thinking of doing, was getting out my inverts, then lowering the salinity of my tank for a few weeks, then raising it back up and putting the inverts in, it will be a lot easier for me to get them out of the tank, then the tangs. And I could kill any of the living ich in the free floating stage.


Does that sound OK to anyone, or should I get the 2 tangs out instead?

-Ian

[andro]

I have been doing a lot of reading on the Ich parasite, thanks for all of you who have been helping me out.


I read that the parasite will starve in 30 days if nothing is in the tank to feed it, if I take out all of my fish and put them into hyposalinity, can the parasite survive in my show tank with my coral, starfish, shrimp, crabs, snails and pods?

I just don't want to make my fish better, only to put them back into the show tank and have them get Ich again.


Thanks,
Ian

[Franks Reef]

That is the only way to rid your tank of ich. No fish host present for AT LEAST 30 days, and they will starve.

Unfortunately, it can be reintroduced on a newly added coral or fish down the road!:( Take the fish out and put them in hypo. You may want to put them into a bucket with some methyblue first. That stuff works wonders.

What kind of tangs are they?

[andro]

Yellow tang and Powder Blue.

I noticed some spots on my clownfish as well, should I remove them as well as my cardinal fish and put them in hypo?


-Ian

[Tomzpc]

Ian,

Have you checked the parameters on your tank water? How much of the livestock came over from your previous tank? I recall that you just set this one up a month ago and was wondering if maybe you got an ammonia spike that may have caused the outbreak? I've seen tangs come down with ich in reef tanks but it generally seems to run its course in a few days. Now back in the days when we were keeping our marine fish in tanks with bleached corals skeletons that was a different story. I shudder when I think back to my first marine tank.

If the fish aren't looking better after a few days, I'd do what the others have said and get them quarantined. You could always improvise if you don't have a tank. A rubbermaid food safe can would work well for instance. I don't necessarily buy the 30 day thing and I wouldn't worry so much about that. Parasites are always going to be present in our tanks no matter what we do but as long as the fish remain relatively stress free they will remain healthy.

Good luck.

Tom

[andro]

Thanks for everyones help and ideas, when I went to bed last night the 2 tangs were still acting like they did in the morning, my cleaner shrimp was taking time on both tangs, it was like they were waiting in line or something. This morning when I woke up, my blue tang had died, it was breathing slowly on the substrate, and its eyes were glassed over, their was ich all over its eyes, so maybe it went blind???

My yellow is still swimming around, it is going into my 4o gallon in a little bit, none of my other fish are showing any signs of ich, so it might just be the 2 tangs.


-Ian


Tom, my water params have been fine, I was worried that they might have changed also. Hopefully it will run its course and I will be back to having my tank running normal again.

[witowsks]

sorry to hear that man, i hate it when u do all u can to keep your tank in line and things still happen....

[vmiller]

Sorry to hear that. Welcome to the world of delicate Tangs. They are great fish, but it can be frustrating trying to keep them healthy.

I've had an Achilles for almost a year now and it's had ich on and off for almost that entire time. I finally got a UV and things are better now. I'm also starting to quarantine fish and corals before I put them in my system.

Vin

[Franks Reef]

SORRY FOR THE LOSS Ian:(

Try to find out the reason for the stress which is causing the ich. Do you have a grounding probe? Has there been a temp swing? How are your params.? Has to be a reason for it. Being that it is a new tank, could be the unstability of the params.

Being that tangs are more susceptable to ich, that is the reason your other fish are not showing signs of it. If you don't take all of the fish out and QT them in hypo or medication, then the ich will be there for the yellow tang when he returns. My tangs had ich on and off for several months until I quarantined them. Killed my first yellow, but the blue survived.

[andro]

I have checked my params, and everything looks fine, I was thinking about what Tom said about a high level of amonia, and I have had a few snails die in the past 2 weeks, one was a very large turbo that I did not find right away. When I went t otake it out of the tank, it just melted away, I probably should have done a water change, but that might have spiked my amonia a little bit. Other than that, I bought 2 pj cardinal fish from Ed last week, I dripped them for 3 hours, but did not put them in methyl blue or anything. Maybe they carried it in, or stressed out the tangs even more.

I tried to take my Yellow tang out tonight, but I could not get to him without taking out all of my rock, one of my largest pieces of rock, which happens to be right in he middle has a huge cave in the back of it, unfortunatly that is where the Tang hides when I get close to the tank.

I am gonig to get a UV sterilizer this week, I know it won't do anything for the ich on the fish, but maybe it will help with the free floating parisite when they break off of the tang.

Can anyone recomment a good UV for a 75 gallon tank?


Thanks again,
Ian

[Tomzpc]

Ian,

Sorry about your blue tang. The fact that you had some snails die indicates that you probably did have some problems in your water, most likely an ammonia spike after the changover, since the snails are usually the first to go when there is a problem IME.

I can't recommend a UV since I've never used one. I know that Frank has had good success with his so he can probably give you a good recommendation. Hope to see you on Friday.

Tom

[vmiller]

Ian,

I think ich parasites only stay on the fish for 24 hours or so before they fall off and reproduce. However, it still took several weeks for me to notice a significant difference in my system.

My UV is somewhat of a DIY project, but I know Emperor and Aqua UV are good units. Based on the ratings, 15W of 25W should be good for a 75. Since the 25W is not much more expensive, that is what I would get especially if you might upgrade to a bigger tank later.

Vin

[andro]

Vin,

Thanks for the info on the UV, I probably should get the larger unit because my stand was built to hold a 120 so in the future, I would have to upgrade it anyway.

As for the ich, it has been since Friday that my tangs have been covered, and my yellow is still covered, maybe the ich is reattaching to him. I hope that is not the case, this is a battle I definatly want to win.

I just wish I could get him out of my tank, tried again this morning, and no luck. I am getting another net tonight, maybe with that I will be able to cover his cave, then catch him.

-Ian

[vmiller]

Originally posted by andro
Vin,

As for the ich, it has been since Friday that my tangs have been covered, and my yellow is still covered, maybe the ich is reattaching to him. I hope that is not the case, this is a battle I definatly want to win.



I think the parasites you see on your fish today are likely not the same parasites that were on it yesterday. Ich has a short life span and a fast reproduction rate. I don't know too much about the cycle, but you can find out more than you'd ever want to know with a few searches.

If you can get the fish to return to it's normal eating habits, it will deal with the ich fine. As long as you eventually get a UV, this might be less stressful for the fish in the long run. Besides, maintaining a Q tank, especially with hyposalinity is an extra responsibility that isn't much fun (at least I don't think so). With hypo you have to monitor the ph daily and keep it up with an additive or water changes. It drops because the low salinity. However, I will say that hypo works very well! You just have to make sure you go the distance or you will have wasted a month of effort.

Good luck!

Vin

[seaham358]

Ian,
If you want I can come over and help out with tring to get the tang. I have been lucky at getting fish out of my tank. Give me a call I'm off today and tomorrow.
Bob

[andro]

Bob,

I will give you a call tonight if you are free. Tried to get a bag for you, but have not made it to the FB yet, noone else sells them around here.

-Ian

[seaham358]

I sould be around. Before 8 is best but can make it after that if you need too. The bag is fine when ever, Ed has a lot of them right now.

[Franks Reef]

Ian,

I would recommend the Custom Sealife double Helix. I run a 36 watt UV. Twicw the size I need! ;)

If you want to feed your tang some meds, try Focus by Seachem. You can mix the meds with it and feed it to the fish without killing any inverts. Ed may have some. If not, the tatoo guy has it. Call Seachem and ask them about it. I did and they were very helpful.

[Franks Reef]

Ian,

I would recommend the Custom Sealife double Helix. I run a 36 watt UV. Twice the size I need! ;)

If you want to feed your tang some meds, try Focus by Seachem. You can mix the meds with it and feed it to the fish without killing any inverts. Ed may have some. If not, the tatoo guy has it. Call Seachem and ask them about it. I did and they were very helpful.

[seaham358]

Frank is that the UV light that has the plastic tubes that wrap around the UV light? If it is Ed said that he had a few of them crap out when the power went out. The pumps did turn back on and the UV bulb melted the plastic tubes. I was loking into getting one for the fowler. Now I got to look at something else. Or make sure I get a good pump for it......

[andro]

I was thinking about getting the CSL one. What brand are you using Bob? I am starting to research them now.

-Ian

[Franks Reef]

Yes Bob, it has a polymer tubing instead of a quartz(glass) sleeve. As long as you don't use a rio pump, it should start right up! The turbo twist one is not as good, from what I have been told (not by Ed).:D