refugium/sump for a nano

[kennerd]

http://www.reefs.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=023836


Check out this guy's design & pics of a refugium/sump for his 15 gal reef tank. VERY neat.

[Timbo]

Wow! That's a great design!! I wonder if there would be a market for a product like that for nano reefs? I should try making something like that to fit on the back of a 10 gallon tank, could even incorporate a skimmer. I'll come up with a plan eventually and post it. I don't have a 10 gallon myself but i'm sure somebody would want it ; )

Tim

[Totlxtc]

I have a similar setup on my 20gallon tank. It holds about 2.5 gallons. I have a Maxijet 1000 that pumps the water from the tank into the refugium. Then the water returns via gravity and 1" pvc pipe. Like Bob's, i only have about 1 to 2 cups of water return to the tank in a power outage. My main reason for this was i dont have room for a sump below the tank and didnt like the idea of losing siphon during power outages. Plus it allows me to get rid of the junk in the tank.

Click here for pictures (http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/pictures?userid={67CAC60E-B134-4927-978B-A4CBD80E62FE}&AlbumId={0840EACE-2CE5-4494-B633-BC0D94719FF2}&GroupId={700210A5-644A-4B81-9DD0-5A4401677BDB})

[oohnoo]

Hey thanks for the post Kennard. Stay tune I'm gonna post more pics of my refugium and oak hood I built.

[hEcToR1520]

hey, oohnoo, Can I have that drawing of yours in the Adobe Acrobat format? That must have been one of the best DIY projects I have ever seen around. Keep up the good work. tonkpils15200@aol.com

[oohnoo]

Sure thing hEcToR1520 I'll e-mail it to you. If you have any question feel free to e-mail me. I also posted new pics of my Oak light canopy I built. My wife says I spend too much time play with this stuff. I say I don't spend enough.

http://www.fototime.com/inv/F1828DE2A1F2F12

[Timbo]

oohnoo,

you definitely have a lot of talent working with acrylic. Quick question... Why did you decide to have the powerhead sucking water into the refugium versus having the powerhead in the tank blowing the water into the refugium?

Great work on the hood, it looks absolutly beautiful! Where did you find that ventelation grating? I am very impressed.

Tim

[oohnoo]

BTY first time working with acrylic, not as hard as it seems. I'm very good with woodworking.
I tried the powerhead in the skimmer box but it was a very tight and made some noise. Made it difficult if you had to adjust anything. After I put it in the refugium area it was total silent and allowes me to easily make changes. Also had the hose blow off and water shot up like Old Fathfull.Don't need that happening at work where I keep this tank.
I used soffett vent material, like the kind you find at HomeDepot for home construction. It lets the heat out while not letting out any light. There's also a 1.5" fan in the hood to help keep the heat down.
How come I can't find the Nano Reefs message board from the main site?

[Totlxtc]

Its under "Special interest forum" near the bottom of the page.

[mr9iron]

very interesting, would you email me the plans also?

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Oohnoo,
That is sweeeeeet! What a killer looking design. You should be very proud.

Does the light from you hood go over the refugium area? That wasn't clear from your pictures.

I am simply drooling over that design. How long have you had it up and running? Any problems you didn't anticipate? Or has it performed as you expected or better?

Congrats!

[nanoguy]

For all those who can't make their own but want to buy one.....CPR makes hang-on refugiums. Anyone have any input to how "effective" these things are? It looks to me that it really won't make too big of an impact on the overall quality of the tank/water.....they are just too small in my opinion, but it definitely won't do any harm :D!

[kennerd]

nanoguy:

Let's take a look @ this: most folks that I have heard from re: the hang-on have larger (75-120) tanks that are well established, with decent water quality anyway. The major difference they have noted is the massive quantity of pods, etc that find a home in the refuge.

Pod reproduction will increase exponentially in the environment on a whole while using a refugium, keeping true to the term "refuge". This is an important feature if using the refugium as a nursery for critters to be used as live food: mandarins in particular.

Whether the noted difference comes from the fact that the pods are more visible in the smaller environment than in the tank, where more hiding spots are available, is another point.

I am adding a small refuge to my 10 gallon for pod production specifically, and some nutrient export. I have a coris wrasse as well as a pistol shrimp/randall's goby pair that, although eating fine, would benefit greatly from the additional food, not to mention the fun of the hunt for the wrasse.

I like oohnoo's design for it's volume & use as a "hang-on" sump. Added volume and additional available room in a nano reef is a treat that is hard to find in the nano-world, and the refugium aspect of a hang-on beats the heck out of hang-on wet-dry/skimmer combos.

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Hey Ken,
Do you know how much light people use on the CPR hang-on refugiums? I'm looking at the 12" refugium, their smallest one. Do you think a 13w PC bulb will work?

[kennerd]

I've heard that the 13 watt fixture is fine. Also heard plenty of people using the old NO flourescents that they've yanked out for upgrades with success as well.......unless you tossed them out of course!

I have at least three sets of endcaps & tubes for the 10 gal fixtures that will work fine.

By the way, if you guys are interested, I have a custom refugium that a buddy is making for me on the way, and shhould arrive by the weekend/early next week. Let me be the guinea pig and let you know how it pans out: he's a heck of a lot cheaper, and I just have to supply a pump. i think he's only charging about $55-60 for the 12" model, with very similar baffles/design as the CPR. Only difference is, his is not a hang-on: not a big deal for us nano-folks, though, given the height of our tanks anyway!

Let you know how it goes.

ken

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Thanks, Ken. Yes, please keep us informed about your friends design. Do you have any pictures or schematics you can show us?

[kennerd]

It's actually an off-the-cuff, email, phone, fax design, if you catch my drift! We had to try to work around the preskimmer / bubble bafffle box I have on my BakPak. The main problem stemmed from the fact that the intake on the skimmer box is on the right side of the box, and, whether intake or output, the plumbing for the refugium closest to that point would impede inflow.

regardless, ithe interior will be setup in a very similar way to the CPR, but no baffle on the outlet: just an overflow bulkhead just like the BakPak to avoid outlet siphon during poweroutage. besides, @ a water level that will be running almost 13" deep, I really don't anticipate much in the way of snowstorming the DSB in there.


Vital stats, though:

11" wide
16" (or so) high
4" deep, front to back

Although not part of the original design, the powerhead WILL be in the tank, and not in the refugium: figured it would allow more room for DSB in the refuge, and maintain a narrower baffle area. Besides, the powerhead will be obstructed from view by a monster piece of LR.

I am toying with the possibility of removing the preskimmer/bubble box from the BakPak: There is a sponge @ the bottom of the bubble trap that is clogging up too often, and it's a nightmare to remove: have to take the box almost completely out to get @ it: I might just remove the sponge & see how it works, since impeded out flow is starting to make the level in the preskimmer run low, and I heard that crappy rio pump in there start to whine. last thing I need is a blown up powerhead.

[postenje]

Just kinda thinking outloud here... would it be possible to make a small refugium out of a hang on the back skimmer?

Maybe build some kind of baffle to keep the sand from migrating over to the intake side. You could turn the flow rate down all the way (I know that Eheim has one, not sure about other companies). Fill it with some sand and some caluerpa (s?) and let it go. You could even do more than one. Paint the back of the tank or grow some coraline, throw them on there, you won't even notice them. Another bonus is they take up no space in the tank. You can usually find these used for a couple of bucks.

Jeff

[kennerd]

A few things on this subject:

1: Might not be enough area in the bottom for a sufficient width DSB.

2.Lighting might be a problem.

Aside from the lowered cost (which might be where I think you were going with this) of purchasing the unit, if you stack 2 side-by-side, there might be too much heat generated by two pumps. and an optimal amount of suface area might not be realized for DSB, given two sets of baffles.

[kennerd]

Actually, too busy right now, but I'll post pics sent to me of my new refugium, hopefullly tomorrow...

[kennerd]

OK, first time trying to post pics on our NJ reef club board: pics show up when you click on them , but the thumbnails aren't working:

http://communities.msn.com/NewJerseysReefClub/kenobriensmiscshots.msnw

Please keep in mind, this one is primarily for a pod farm a FOWLR, 10 gallon tank, and is going to be next to a CPR BakPak2 across a 24" wide tank. The intake on the left side is angled as such to avoid the skimmer box for the BP2. Powerhead will be in-tank, and I'll let you know how the small overflow box/outlet baffle system works: we did this to maximize DSB width, due to the lack of room.

Also, scatches on the acrylic are due to the recycled nature of the materials.

11" wide
16" (or so) high
4" deep, front to back


If the pictures aren't accessible, I'll try something else.

Ken

[Pinecone_Jeff]

I was able to see the pics no prob. Interesting design! I can't wait to hear how it finally works. :)

[oohnoo]

Hey Kennard looks good.
let us know how it works out.
Couple of question. Is the return back to the tank on the right side? If so how do you start the siphon in the tube or will it just flow thru? Most importantly what happens if you loose the siphon (It does happen). Think about it and actually stop the siphon to see what happens. That what I did and that's why I incorporated the built-in overflow. You could easiely do that in your with just PVC.

New pics
Bob's MiniReef (http://www.fototime.com/inv/48D08E179E36AA5)

[kennerd]

Don't know yet: it is being shipped to me today!

Left side is the intake: water will be pumped in from an in- tank powerhead.

Right side is the outlet. Don't know about the siphon. I may actually take off the tube on the inside on the refuge, so there is only a bulkhead inside, with an elbow to direct overflow into the tank: just an overflow into the tank just like my BakPak2 skimmer, and no siphon. The little baffle box will then act as a built-in overflow back into the tank.

Need to see how that works, as the BP has a larger diameter outflow than intake, so that flow isn't impeded.

Keep you posted, but it will probably be a week before I recieve it, and equip it with a powerhead, etc.

Question will still remain as to back-siphon through the intake: do you see any problem with that, Bob? Maybe a check valve in-ilne? I purposely kept from buying the powerhead until I figured out how much juice I'd need to blow everything through.

[oohnoo]

You'll want to put a small hole in the intake tube right below the water line (about 1/4"). That way once power goes out it will only siphon until it hits that hole. AS for a pump what I hear is to use a slow rate so the caulperia has a chance to work it magic. On mine I use a Maxi-Jet 404.

[kennerd]

The fellow who is building this has been using the Hagen 201, which is rated @ 125gph & it's adjustable. I happen to have one lying around & I'll start with that.

[Lunchbucket]

hey everyone i am the one kennard is getting the refugium from! i will ship it out on monday...as i have a busy weekend.

hope it all works out great and i will help anyone w/ any ?'s. i have one that i built for myself 12x24x6 and it is working great. only thing i would change is to upgrade from the 201 hagen to a larger powerhead. i have a 301 laying around and will use that soon!

working great! lots-o-calupra in there!! it is like a mass of calupra!!! i have a 10gal incandesant (dual) fixture over it for lighting. two 25 w clear incandesant bulbs and the calupra is going nutz. i am a frequenter of www.reefs.org and that is where i do most of my posting. i hope to check here about this topic. if you have a ? and i don't reply w/ in a day or 2 just email me! or message me!

thanks
Later
Lunchbucket

[kennerd]

Hey, y'all:

Well, Lunchbucket's refugium has arrived & I can't wait to get it in the tank!

I've calculated it's water level volume @ 2.15 gallons! Link that with the BakPak 2's volume of 1.31 tha toal volume, including the tank, is 13.46, a 35% increase over the tank alone.

Let you know how it fares!

[kennerd]

OK, made a few minor mods to the refugium, and it is in, and running. The outlet didn't seem to run quickly enough, so a quick run to Home Depot, $3, & presto: gravity fed outlet.

I went down to the shop (we have another business building race cars & restoring antique cars as well) and drilled out a 1.25" hole where the outlet is. Then I used a 3/4" internal adapter, flush to the inner wall, and a 3/4-1" adapter in the outside, with a 1" elbow down into the tank. drains like a champ! The only other thing I may do is add 1/4" in height to the outlet baffle, and we're all set.

I used the southdown sand I had left over from my mantis shrimp's first holding tank (2.5 gal critter keeper), as well as the water, which was teeming with tiny pods & bugs, and after allowing the water & sand to settle, I fired it up!

Now to move my macro & get a pod starter kit from IPSF or such, and we're in business......By the way, anyone interested in donating some macro??????

[nvillacci]

got some calerpa I could send you. ITs growing outof controll in my 10 gallon, but hey its keeping the micro at bay. If you have an airborne account I could send it to you.

Im in Irving, TX

Nick

[kennerd]

Hey, Nick: sorry I forgot to ask, but what type of macro do you have there?

Also, flow in the refugium is fantastic. Haven't added anything but the sand yet, since I'm working on some lighting right now.

[Lunchbucket]

glad it is working great for you kennard!! i was hoping you would love it :) hope the custom jobbie worked for you.

hey get some pics of it on the tank and running and stuff will you?

i have some calupra too if you want. mostly grape but some feather and some cup calupra. i need to trim my refugium (that is like yours) bad!! it is so full it looks like a ball of calupra. that stuff is growing like mad w/ 2 25w clear incandesant aquarium bulbs!!

by the way, what size pump did you end up using?

later
Lunchbucket

[kennerd]

I have two types of feather in the tank right now doing particularly well. I am expecting another handful of the feather from the same guy, as well as some "spaghetti" macro, that's really just a floater from another guy. Definitely interested in some of the grape for in the tank.

I went with the Hagen 201 that I had, since it's adjustable. Works fine!

Looking @ a small 10 gal tank henclosure that has two bulbs in it right now, since it can be cut down to the size of the reflector: 4x11: perfect size!

Let you know, and will post pics ASAP. Hoping to get my digital camera within the week.

[Lunchbucket]

i wonder if i have an extra incandesant hood around. i think i do.

let me know if you are interested

later
Lunchbucket

[kennerd]

Actually, I just bought this fixture for $9.00 delivered. I am going to cut down the hood to the width of the reflector, which will be 4.25x11:

http://abacus.sj.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/2c1c56fbe771f0874c5526b8f/i-1.JPG

fellow said it is roughly 25 watts.

[oohnoo]

HiHo
You may want to watch the tempertature in your tank with that. Those are incandesent bulbs. They get very hot.

[kennerd]

I agree, but for now, it shouldn't be a problem. The refuge is behind a 10gal FOWLR, which only has a superdaylight 18W bulb on it....no photosynthetics in there: a few fish, some sun polyps, sea squirt and a christmans tree coral, so I haven't gotten nuts about lighting, and the heater actually stays on quite a bit as it is. If anything, the incandescent light might supplement the heater!

Also, I have a few 13w retros lying around, and might just pop one in in place of the incandescent...

Quick story on those 13watters: retro-ed two of them into the 10 gallon hood. got them in, and they had 50/50 smartbulbs in them. All set, when I realized that I needed to flip one of them so the blues were on the same side in the enclosure. Well, I popped one bulb out & it smashed into the other blb, and both broke......no spare bulbs, so I had to take the whole damn thing apart & put the old NO back in.......

[ReefDragon]

Those things are freakishly easy to break. I've broken two myself; one was while taking it out of the bloody socket. The other, I just dropped.

Agh. Now I'm a metal halide fan. What can I say? :D

-Jon

[kennerd]

Well, at current Metal Halide bulb prices, I'd say: be careful with those bulbs!

[ReefDragon]

My Iwasaki gets treated better than my girlfriend. :D

Seriously, the screw-in design makes it much easier to get a bulb out of a socket than the 13w PCs, which you really have to jerk to get out. Hence, the breakage...

-Jon

[kennerd]

up

[Lunchbucket]

whoa kennard is pulling out the OLD POST!!

LOL

Lunchbucket

[Corpus Callosum]

look at him go :D

[kennerd]

Yeah, an oldie.......Beegee wanted to know about it, and while I was looking for th thread to give him, I just figured I'd bump it..


Careful, next thing you know, I'll re-start the GARF files....

or maybe invite Marc Weiss for a live chat....





I am one sick b@!#&$d.

[Lunchbucket]

NO THANKS buddy this one is good enough :D

Lunchbucket

[Big Worm]

NO WONDER all the darn links to pics on this thread are DEAD!!! Didn't realize how crusty this post was until now!

[David Groos]

Yeah, and I really wanted to see what ohhnoo's refugium looks like. Especially since I'm about to buy a cpr and was looking for other options.

Dave

[Lunchbucket]

cpr too expensive you could build what you want for way less

Lunchbucket

[kennerd]

Here's a link to oohnoo's page @ Nano-Reef.com. On that page is a link to his home pages. I seem to recall that he has a bunch of refuge pics on that page.

http://www.nano-reef.com/members/robertnano.htm

[David Groos]

That sounds great but I have never done anywork with acrylic and wouldn't even know where to start. Any suggested reading? I'd also like to build an abs hood for the tank.

TIA