Anyone but IPSF! [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community Archives

Rovert

04/07/2001, 12:27 AM

I was ready to order from IPSF today, and after my experience, am in no rush to give them my business. Here is the transcript from my email to them. So much for customer service. I'll buy my product from a company that WANTS my business:

===================================

From: rovert@attglobal.net
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:25 PM
To: Indopac@aol.com [mailto:Indopac@aol.com]
Subject: Order for Saturday delivery?

Willing to pay for Saturday delivery, for arrival on the 7th, if possible. Please advise?

Ship to:
(my address, phone, CC info)

Order is:
1 Mix & Match Special
1 Supersized
1 Coralline Booster

Mix & Match:
6 Baby Bristle Worms
6 Baby Trocus Grazers
6 Nerite Grazers
6 Adult Strombus
6 Baby Hawaiian Turbo Grazers
Reef Amphipods
Live Sand Activator
Coral Heaven
Anthelia Polyps

SUPERSIZE with:
Gold Leather
Green Leather

Thanks very much in advance!

===================================

From: Indopac@aol.com [mailto:Indopac@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 2:27 PM
To: storms@optonline.net
Subject: Re: Order for Saturday delivery?

We're full booked more than a week in advance. Please plan accordingly when you order from us.

Thank you,

Gerald Heslinga
ipsf.com

===================================

From: rovert@attglobal.net
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 3:11 PM
To: Indopac@aol.com [mailto:Indopac@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Order for Saturday delivery?

Gerald -

There is no indication as to order lead time on your website. Ironically, what is listed, however, is a request for CUSTOMERS to be courteous. Let's just postpone the order until a time when it's more convenient for you.

Regards,
Robert Kreisler

===================================

Anyone else have a similar experience?

[Edited by Rovert on 04-07-2001 at 01:32 AM]

Ferkinz

04/07/2001, 12:42 AM

Rovert,

Before you get overly hasty call Gerald, and speak with him directly. I called to order a live sand startup kit two weeks ago. Then too, he was booked for a week solid. I almost got really frustrated, but thank goodness I didn't. I agreed to his week of being booked solid. He takes his time, and HE DOES IT RIGHT. Just like with everything else in the reef hobby, we have to sometimes be super patient about the most simple things. So... I emplore you, slow down and take the time to wait. You absolutely will not regret it. He is a very highly educated man, and his emphasis is not on customer service. So don't expect that. But.. What he does do, he does alarmingly well. Take the time place the order. You'll have to pay up front, and set up delivery for at least one week out. But you will be so happy you did. I have ordered from litterally dozens of online vendors. Gerald and ISPF are the very best at the livestock category that they specialize in. The very best. I wish I had more space to go on. I genuinely hope that this has changed your mind.

Please feel free to email me directly if you have any questions. And I don't even work for ISPF. But I would go to bat for this guy again and again. And I've only done one transaction with him.

Ferkinz

lalmatia

04/07/2001, 01:49 AM

I also ordered from IPSF, two times 9 for $99 and upgraded it w/ their corals and polyps. I didn't get it in next day or in 2 days but had to wait about a week. But the good thing is Gerald always put 3-4 extra for each item. IMO IPSF is the cheapest and overnight shipping is included in 9 for $99 deal.

You could try http://www.inlandaquatics.com for detrivore kits.

mgk65

04/07/2001, 04:49 AM

Rovert:

There have been messages in the past about the shortness or even rudeness of email from Gerald. However, I don't see it here in your email exchange.

He's telling you that he is booked for shipments. No extra commentary. It says on his web site:

Your order will be acknowledged within 24 hours of receipt, and we will provide the following:

-itemized invoice with firm price quote for livestock and shipping
-firm delivery date

In his defense, there are only so many hours a day.

The products are good and well packaged for shipment. I will continue to recommend IPSF.com.

mgk

Rovert

04/07/2001, 09:09 AM

Mgk, you might not see it, but everyone else does. That kind of statement is condescending and smug, no matter how you read it.

Ok, I'll probably give it another shot at some time in the future. Maybe we both caught each other on "off days". The reality is, however, that I don't need the order in 2 weeks, I need it now. Had there been a notice on the site about lead time, I would have ordered a week ago. This changeover from FW has been planned and timed every step of the way.

It just seems that I've become a little tired of being treated like a second class citizen. I'm a good customer, I never bicker over little things, I always pay what's asked, and vociferously support the merchants that do right by me... "do right" in this case, meaning to give fair value, and treat me with respect.

Let's hope that Gerald is enough of a business professional to "get the hint", and realize that he just might need to work on his people skills a bit.

mgk65

04/07/2001, 09:17 AM

Rovert:

I can appreciate your opinion. I feel the same way about vendors as well. Not only in the aquarium trade, but also in the workplace. If a vendor does not hold up their end, I'm the first one there, knocking.

We do have alternatives for IPSF. Give http://www.inlandaquatics.com a shot. Their detritivore kit is similar, but has different critters. I am of the opinion that the IA and IPSF kits/packages are complementary. You will get items from them that no one else carries at retail.

I have purchased from both places, and liked them both. I also had little problems with both, but nothing insurmountable.

mgk

Blithe

04/07/2001, 09:53 AM

Rovert,
To add my 2 cents...yes, Gerald is very direct in his email msg. However, he is also willing to answer questions about his products/critters, which one's are best for your tank and even how to best set up your refugium. I've ordered from him probably 6 times over the last 2 years and I've never been disappointed. Additonally, he is an marine biologist, who is active in reef conservation and hasn't sold out to commercialism. Personally, I'm willing to overlook the fact that his website is not as spiffy as the web retail stores and that because he is a one man show, who can't ship within 24 hours of my order. Our tanks and the industry need people like him.

Reefcrazy

04/07/2001, 01:19 PM

I'm going to take Geralds side in this. Yes I agree his people skills are not the best, but, his 9 for $99 is. Anyone who has gotten this knows that it is, and he is incredibly busy because of that. As for his customer service; when Fed Ex screwed up the shipping on my order Gerald was good enough to call me and assure me that no matter what, he was going to make sure that I received everything I paid for. Incredibly, i lost only one turbo in the shipment even though it took 90 hours + to reach my tank! IPSF is #1 in my book!

Ferkinz

04/07/2001, 02:22 PM

yep!

He's not here for "people skills." Go to the frigging LFS if you want that. He is a marine biologist. He knows his stuff inside and out. If you are looking for the Ritz Carleton experience, this isn't it. If you seek excellent top notch product with no B.S. then Gerald is your man.

the_blue_tuna

04/07/2001, 03:02 PM

In my experiences with Gerald , I found him to be knowledgable,friendly,concerned,a bit direct and above all the supplier of very quality products at (IMO) a very fair price. I would recommend him anytime. I also had problems with the Fed-ex company and Gerald went above and beyond to make sure I got what I paid for.5 stars for IPSF.

johnny

04/07/2001, 03:26 PM

Aren't we a bit emotional today? :)

Rovert,

I didn't see much of anything wrong with his email to you. I think you're just taking it wrong as can often be done in emails/chat rooms. However, your email was blatantly rude and quite childish ... if you don't like the service, that's fine... order somewhere else, but there's no reason to get sarcastic with him.

You're a customer, and while yes you put food on his table, so do the other 500 people that order from him. I'd be happy to get an email.... any email... from most of the companies I order from.

just my opinion.

Nick

Queezy Viper2

04/07/2001, 03:31 PM

Yeah ROVERT! What's wrong with you? I can't believe you expect courtesy from a successful marine biologist. with a successful business!
You MUST be out of you're mind or something.

Sarcasm aside, I totally understand Rovert.
By the way, everyone, having good product and or a good education / expertise doesn't justify being condescending to people.

C'mon yal, if someone is rude to you and you still bought his stuff, don't say "he needs to work on his people skills but...he has GREAT stuff" --- just admit you take sh** from that person cuz you need something from him. Politically correct b.s. is killing me around here.

jj

Ferkinz

04/07/2001, 03:41 PM

naw..

Its nothing like that. Gerald was nor ever has been RUDE to anyone. He's good people. That email wasn't rude or disrespectful no matter how you look at it. Bottom line here is, he runs a great business. He always compensates for critters that arrive dead. He provides the heads up about lead times on orders because he believes in doing the job right the first time, and not rushing something out just to make a buck. ISPF is great, and for Geralds little niche, he's the best. If you are concerned about someone being straight forward and blunt, this probably isn't the hobby for you.

Nuff said.

Ferkinz

Rovert

04/07/2001, 03:45 PM

Blithe / Reefaman -

Ah, I get it. So what you're saying is that Gerald is the marine equivalent of the "Soup Nazi", right? I get it now.

I understand your point, but I think you missed mine. This has nothing to do with his website, commercialism, or talent. His reply wasn't "direct", it was rude. Period. I'm sure Gerald has great quality stuff, I'm sure he answers questions, and I'm sure he's generally a great guy, but I'll never know, because we never even got to that point.

If you walked into a car dealership and the salesman curtly told you "Go away, we have no time for you now, you should have planned on coming when we weren't busy", you'd tell him to go %^$# himself, walk out, and you'd never get a chance to find out how great their cars were, or how reliable their service department might be.

A more appropriate reply would have been "Thank you for your interest in IPSF. Regretfully, we have a 2 week backlog on orders, but we appreciate your business, and will be happy to ship your order ASAP. If you still desire to order, please reply, and we will process your request for delivery within 10 business days".

The above message took me 20 seconds to compose in my mind, and type. See? Simple. And no, that's not "Ritz Carlton", it's just basic decency. Oh, and gee... you could even have these kinds of replies PREPARED for times when you DO get backlogged, so you don't have to spend time having to invest all that tremendous effort to actually be courteous to your customers.

Bottom line is that no matter how talented one is in various other areas, it doesn't excuse bad manners. All I'm asking for is the same level of courtesy he requests from his customers.

And, for those of you who have noticed a deterioration in interpersonal courtesies in recent times, like motorists running through red lights, people not returning phone calls, and just general rudeness in our society lately, maybe it's because we're so busy making excuses for bad behavior, and tolerating it, instead of standing up to it, that it continues.

Just food for thought. If you wish to be treated like a second class citizen, then go right ahead and make all the excuses you want. I, for one, have no desire to reward rudeness, and intend to give my business to someone else wo recognizes that I'm a CUSTOMER, and not one of his lackeys, or his children.

Johnny - my initial order/inquiry was formatted precisely the way he requested on his website. His response to my inquiry received a commensurate reply. Nothing more, nothing less. It's just business, right?

Oh, and Ferkinz ... remind me if we ever do business together, that I should spit in your eye before taking your money and rolling you out the door, because they don't do that at the Ritz Carlton, either.

Twinspot99

04/07/2001, 05:08 PM

I'm sorry but this is funny. "No more baby bristle worms for you, next!".

commwire

04/07/2001, 05:45 PM

Hi Rovet,
I think you're overreacting just a tad...Gerald is a very caring person. He may be direct but I would hardly call him rude. Awhile back I was planning to order a kit from him and I needed help with making a decision, he gave me lots of information and put together a package that would, as he called it, give me "more bang for the buck".
Out of curiousity, I asked my 15 year old son to read your post and Geralds (without knowing any of the particulars)and I asked him did any of the text sound rude to him...I'm sorry you lost...he said that your reply sounded a little rude and mean. So there you have it out of the mouths of babes.
I hope you'll give Gerald another chance ...he's really got some great stuff. Trust all of us, you won't be sorry.
Good Luck,
Carmen

mr9iron

04/07/2001, 05:45 PM

Cant we all just play nice together?:D:D:D

joeyz

04/07/2001, 06:22 PM

Robert - I too have experienced a little "smugness" from Gerald in the past and took my biz to Inland and was very pleased.
Here's an email reply from Gerald:

Who are you, and where are you located?
I find it difficult to offer advice when you will not even do us the courtesy of providing your full name. What's the big secret? What's our percentage in spending time advising a mystery man? You could be a prisoner in Attica for all we know.

Gerald Heslinga
ipsf.com

Here's my email to him and you decide if he is off his rocker:
Do you carry captive bred clownfish?
If so do you sell any of them paired off?
Do you also sell rotifers and cultures of greenwater?
On a different note, I am looking to add some of your "critters" to my display tank. I will be taking everything out and re-stacking my rock (the rock will be stored in another system during this time). I feel this is a good time to increase the depth of my sandbed as well as have the benefit of adding some critters in a predator free environment and allow them to get settled.
Also, I will be setting up some coral propagation tanks.
Would you recommend tossing a few of these critters in each of these tanks? I would imagine that if I had nothing but corals in these tanks, these tanks would actually act like a refugium and would basically help feed the corals.
Thanks for your time in reading this and I look forward to your reply.

Rovert

04/07/2001, 06:34 PM

Thanks to all here. I appreciate your feedback, and hope this has given everyone pause for thought.

Based on your encouragement, and support of Gerald, I have decided to give IPSF another chance. It irks me in a way, because I think if you were on the receiving end of it, you'd possibly have a different view. FWIW, I'm a native New Yorker, so it's not like I have "thin skin". It's just that in my life and business experience, I've come to learn that EVERYTHING counts... even the little things, like "please" and "thank you".

Oh, and commwire... no slight intended, but I wouldn't consider a 15-year-old's view of the world to be a yardstick for measurement. He probably talks that way every day to his peers, and hasn't lived long enough to develop the interpersonal courtesies that are the oil on these squeaky, rusty, gears of life. ;)

commwire

04/07/2001, 07:13 PM

Hi All,
I sent an e-mail to Gerald earlier so that he may have a chance to defend himself, here is my message to him and his replies....like I said a very nice guy.

Subject: Reef Central Post
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:22:47 -0700
From: Leviathan <commwire@softhome.net>
To: indopac@aol.com

Hi Gerald,
Hope all is well with you...I don't know if you if are aware but there is a post regarding you and you customer service skills...I thought you might want to take a look at it, so here it is http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=19975 I wouldn't worry to much ...you have a lot of folks defending you....Carmen

Subject: Re: Reef Central Post
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 18:52:51 EDT
From: Indopac@aol.com
To: commwire@softhome.net

I haven't seen this one yet Carmen, but thanks very much for pointing it out.

Gerald

Subject: Re: Reef Central Post
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 19:31:14 EDT
From: Indopac@aol.com
To: commwire@softhome.net

Hi Carmen,

I just read the thread - thank you very much indeed for coming to our defense.

It's been said that we learn the most from our least satisfied customers. I receive and reply to about 50 e-mails a day. As the day wears on, the responses tend to become briefer. Undoubtedly some people may interpret this as rudeness, but that's not the intention. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

Aloha, and thanks again,

Gerald

commwire

04/07/2001, 07:30 PM

Hi Rovert,
Yes I understand what you mean...but lets just say this is no ordinary 15 year old...he's already in college and he understands (and I hate to admit it) a lot more than I do and I'm 2 times his senior) :)
I hope you read my pevious post....Gerald's replies were well taken.
Glad to see you changed your mind....enjoy!
Carmen

Rovert

04/07/2001, 07:58 PM

Carmen -

Again, I posit that intelligence in one area is no substitute for skills in another, which also applies to gifted children, as well. It is the "well rounded" individual that has no sharp edges, yes?

That said, I have already resubmitted my order to Gerald in the hope that we can move forward, and that this dialog will be of benefit to everyone.

Who knows... my history with situations such as these suggest that the people that I have the greatest difficulty with in the beginning wind up being my closest friends in the end. Let's hope I can say the same of Gerald!

Ferkinz

04/07/2001, 08:10 PM

glad to hear you are giving him a second chance.

Ferkinz

Rivah Rat

04/08/2001, 09:43 AM

Rovert,
If I read your post correctly, It looks like you wanted your things delivered the next day? and you thought you were treated rude? What about the other people who placed their orders ahead of yours? I see in your bio you are a sales manager. Can you always accommidate unrealistic requests? In your business do you have people sitting around waiting for business? If so you won't be in business long. Where I come from " A lack of planning on your part, does not constitute an emergency on my part" so what, you were in a rush. Didn't you ever have to wait on anything before? I liked your car analogy, but it reminded when I bought my last car, they didn't have exactly what I wanted, and I had to WAIT until it was brought from another dealership, so what, get over it. If your schedule was so important, you shouldn't have waited till the last minute, and expected the man to jump through hoops to satisfy YOU!!!

Rovert

04/08/2001, 10:49 AM

csdsriggs -

I won't comment on the tone of your little diatribe, but I will respond to the substance of it.

Yes, I did hope to have the order delivered the next day, and there is no indication on the IPSF website that such a request cannot be fulfilled, nor is there an indication that there is normally a one week turnaround on orders. Ergo, there was nothing unrealistic about the REQUEST, only about the capability of performing it. Furthermore, the fact that I was willing to pay extra for such consideration has obviously eluded your attention, which should address your commentary on order priority and queueing. Many companies have a "rush servcie" for which customers pay extra for.

Despite your blatent and belligerent attempt to personalize this, allow me to offer a more polite, and circumspect reply.

As a sales manager, it is my job to try my hardest to accommodate those inevitable unreasonable requests in every way I can, and my customers have come to expect that of me. Suffice to say, if I can't accommodate my customer's request, I don't verbally slam the door in their face, by making them feel like a jerk for even asking. That's why I am a favored supplier, as opposed to my competitors. And if one of MY staff reps ever made an immature and unprofessional comment to a customer like "a lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part", it would weigh heavily against them in their next performance evaluation.

As to your car analogy, I was not requesting anything that was not in stock, or anything that had to be built for me. I am also willing to bet that you went to more than just one dealership to find that car you wanted, so it would be illogical to use this as a frame of reference.

Bottom line is that this was a completely reasonable request that was met by a less than circumspect response, and that is what is in question here.

There's an old saying you may have come across in your travels. "It's not what you say, but how you say it, that matters".

Have a nice day. :)

Ewan

04/08/2001, 11:15 AM

Hi Rovert.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see the rudeness in your response from ISPF. I've read it several times. What I understand is that you asked for shipping for saturday. He advised you that he's booked a week in advance, and that you should plan accordingly.

To me, this is a way of "advising" you of the setup and current status of orders at ISPF. And that you should plan for a couple of weeks in advance. I'm sure he could have sugar-coated it for you, but personally, I wouldn't expect that from someone.

Most vendors I've dealt with have either balatently lied and told me that it will be there, and then just not followed up, or not resonded to my email at all if they are booked up.

It's strange that those folks that choose not to respond to customer emails are considered 'hard to get ahold of' while this email is considered rude. I think you *might* have assumed a rude connotation here.

Try not to hold a grudge. The General concensus is that it'll be worth the wait. Give him another try.

Jm $.02

E.

Rovert

04/08/2001, 01:00 PM

Ewan -

If you check my reply a few posts up, I did, in fact, resubmit my order request to IPSF, and now that the expectation has been set, I can plan accordingly.

However, FWIW, I'm not the only nutcase in the community here that read it the way I did.

Aaron Shelley

04/08/2001, 01:18 PM

I think he is rude too!

I saved about 20 email exchanges between he and myself. At one point, he told me to place my order again in 3 or 4 months! He as yet to return my phone calls (going on 6 weeks now).

I don't recall if I hever posted the email exchange or not. I got my stuff in about a week after first emailing him. At my usual per hour charge for time wasted, It wasn't 9 for $99, I promise you.

OTOH, I was VERY IMPRESSED with how he boxes stuff up.

So, IMO, the Seinfeld Soup Nazi reference was perfect. You had me rolling (LOL).

Plus, whats up with all the crazy nomenclature. What the heck is a sea bunny or Tang Heaven? I find it hard to compare apple to apples with all of these IPSF trademark names on what he sells.

All in all, I'd probably go back for more soup! :)

Ewan

04/08/2001, 01:40 PM

I didn't call you a nutcase...

I must have missed your post about re-submitting your order.
I hope you are as pleased with what you recieve as others the have posted.

E.

SPC

04/08/2001, 07:09 PM

Rovert, I feel that you handled this entire event well.
Steve

Salt Creepy

04/08/2001, 09:27 PM

Rovert,
Thank you for posting a well thought out and articulate opinion. It is exceedingly important to remind everyone about the nuances of community etiquette. I need to often remember, and come to grips with, the reality that bulletin boards are a cross-section of society and are populated by both those just wandering in and purists. I hope the aggression (perceived or real) does not prevent you from posting often. I like your style.

Dan

Rovert

04/09/2001, 09:11 AM

Salt Creepy -

Thanks for your support. I'm sure we've all benefitted in some way, and to varying degrees, from this exchange. That's what this community is all about!

Regards,
RK

deanp

04/12/2001, 12:44 PM

I'll admit I didn't read the entire post but I'm a little upset with Gerald as well. I ordered from him last Tuesday he said it would ship this week and its not shipping until next week. Not a huge deal but I'm fighting an algae bloom and I kinda need the snails. If he told me they would be two weeks originally I might have gone with Inland. Again not the end of the world but just adding my experience.

For what its worth his emails to me were fine seems like a nice guy

Rovert

04/24/2001, 08:22 PM

Update.

Based upon everyone's urging, I resubmitted my order to IPSF on Saturday, 4/7.

I waited almost the entire week for some sort of acknowledgement from them, despite the claim of a 24 hour reply on the website. Being a reasonable, level-headed and circumspect individual, and realizing a few days later that the resubmission still had the Saturday delivery request as a subject line, I sent the order in again.

The following are the dates and times of my multiple attempts to do business with IPSF.

Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:19 AM
To: indopac@aol.com
Subject: Order request

Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:35 AM
To: indopac@aol.com
Subject: 2nd request
Please advise cost, and approximate ship date.

Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:33 PM
To: indopac@aol.com
Subject: 3rd request
Importance: High
Kindly confirm receipt of message?

To date, I have received NO REPLY from anyone in their operation. I am hoping the "defenders of the faith" out there who encouraged me to work this out with Gerald can help me understand what's happening here. Hopefully, those of you who felt I overreacted to and/or misinterpreted, Gerald's reply to me, can help me understand what this means. I could draw my own conclusions, but I'd much rather you guys do the analysis, since you know him better than I do.