Suggestions for the Planning Committee for '04

[makoshark]

Just to recap what was discussed in Saturday's meeting. We had a somewhat heated discussion in review of the events and meetings over the past year. Some of us really enjoy the field trips, some of us attend the meetings to share ideas and gain useful insight to apply to our tanks, some of us want to swap frags and some of us only join to get 10% off of our purchases at the local pet store (implied by the difference between membership numbers and meeting/event attendance). I thought that this would be the perfect place to state what you really liked/disliked about this past years events and if needed what would you like to see diferent. Also, for those who have not attended a meeting or field trip what would bring you out?

There are no right or wrong answers, just opinions.

I'm going out on a limb here but based on the tone every time they mention it, I'm guessing that the planning committee (John and Mike) would be more than willing to accept volunteers to help out.

Please post your thoughts here.

[jcm1229]

I'd like to see 10 minutes or so (or start the real meeting at 1:10 since we don't officially have the room until 1:00) for frag swapping etc ... at each of our Library meetings. This could be facilitated by a thread here on RC the week prior with folks posting what they have and what they're looking for. I'm guessing that besides the big swap meet meeting this would only amount to a couple of people each month bringing stuff, but that's what this club is about - people helping each other out!

[makoshark]

Although I think that we should allow time at the end of the meeting we'll never get the meetings started otherwise.

I also forgot to acknowledge Mike and John for putting together a great program in '03! The only issue that I had was when we had a field trip, a frag swap and then another field trip. I fealt that going a whole quarter without a real meeting was kind of long. Other than that I loved the Shedd Aquarium tour, frag propigation seminar, the frag swap, how to bulild a calcium reactor demonstration and Tom Sandercocks pictures of the Great Barrier Reef. Due to a death in the family I missed Eric Borneman but I wish I had made it to that too. Those were the highlights to me but I got something out of every meeting. Thanks Guys!

[imbuggin]

i would come to trade frags. Especially if we knew who was going to have what from a form on RC. Thats the way to do it. Also letting people know of what topics will be discussed.

[whirley]

I love swap meets. I believe that CMAS should have a small swap meet at every meeting. Perhaps state that from 1-1:30 Swap meet, from 1:30-3, meeting. And, perhaps say that everyone who isn't done with the swap meet, goto another room which the rest of the members start the meeting.

To be honestly, I've never gone to a field trip. I've been off and on a member of CMAS since 1997, never once gone a a field trip. Dunno why. I think if Shedd came up again, I would definately go! In terms of field trips, I'm for them, just as long as they are interesting.

I also like information meetings, but probably would not attend since I now live so far away. I would LOVE to see pictures from Bali from Lynn something-or-other. She showed us pictures back in 1999, pictures from Bali. Just simply geourgous. As I recall, she was a professional photographer.

Just my thoughts.
whirley

[ReefHobbyist]

I was over on the Western Michigan club forum looking for threads on the frag show they have next fall when I found this (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178488)

It's a frag growing contest. Sounds interesting. I think we should check out some of the other club forums and see what they are up to.

Scott

[shawnmarnie]

Iv been to 1 meeting and I liked the video we watched 1st but I could of watched that at home I like frag swap idea and field trips are nice if they are gonna show me something I couldnt just go out and see myself ie backstage at shed sounds neat etc.. But as far as the video we watched last on imac speaker it bored the hell outa me. I mean the guy made his point in the 1st 1 minute the rest he just said the same thing for an hr. I would love to come for how to workshops that would really interest me because up to now iv been learning what i can from lfs and internet and gotta say you get 10 different opinions. I really liked meeting people to trade with expecially Paul his tank looked nice and i learned a lot from him that i wouldnt have learned off the internet and i got to see examples. I wouldnt mide voulenteering for some work I have done so much voulenteer work in the past it's nothing new to me. I would also like to have classes on coral prop. etc the hands on experience of it makes a world of difference and I think hands on experiences mixed with frag swaps etc. would draw more people then a video from imac etc. I also think a round table chat with people see how there tanks are going learn about new things they have aquired or learned that work for them, deals they have found is nice too. Since that was my 1st time meeting the people there I wasnt as talkative as I would be if I had known the people. The reason I seeked out others that are around me that have reef tanks is to learn from them and their experience and that's probably true of most people to learn and to swap frags that's probably why there are 100+ members and most dont go to regular meetings cause it's not appealing to them but if they had a small time for frag swapping set up before meetings etc that might draw more people too. I for 1 am planning on starting prop. tanks so I can share corals with people as we all know pet stores are expensive and any cash I can save by trading is welcome :) Well iv gotten a small essay going on here so ill stop now :).

[jcm1229]

Here's a list of topics that have been covered by some of the other marine clubs. Maybe we have members that could talk on any of these areas or lead discussion.

- How to move a reef tank a long distance.

- Looking at Phytoplankton under a microscope.

- Making reef plugs using the GARF recipe

- Retail report (local stores)

- Internet/Mail order report

- Rock making workshop

- Homemade Fish & Coral Food

- Reef Lighting

- Working with acrylic

- Aquarium Photography

Aquarium troubleshooting

Water chemistry and testing

DIY projects

[jcm1229]

One marine club web page has a running list that has members names, what they have to trade/swap and what they're looking for.

That might be very useful/helpful.

[alpine]

Shawnmarine and jcm1229 have good points that should be implemented into the next shedule of events.I am no shy person so I will state my opinion since it was asked for.Some of the cmas meetings are just plain old boring.Sorry to be so blunt,but that is the truth in my case.Just to clarify things and I know no one is implying this,but I did not join cmas for the 10% discount.I tried to use it once and was told they no longer gave us discounts.I joined cmas to better my knowledge of the hobby and to meet fellow reefers near meThe first meeting I went to was when doug did his presentation om building a calcium reactor.The meeting was very useful knowledge wise for me,but for a reefer that does not possess the ability to build something by just looking at it,it was probaly not of any help.I love the thrill of the DIY aspect toward the hobby,mostly because I am a carpenter and mechanic so I have always been making things myself.So what I am saying is that building things to me comes easy because of experience.What would be real cool is a maco like course for the club,so that others who want to learn to build there own stuff can learn.I am talking a complete how to course on how to build skimmers,calcium reactors,and what ever else we can think of.I am sure everybody knows how expensive equipment is.I paid less then $200 for my diy calcium reactor and that includes the co2 system.A frag swap page like cima would be nice as well.It would'nt hurt for us to check out other club websites and see what kind of ideas we could use for our website as well.How about setting up a large frag swap/meeting with cima once a year.That would give us the oppurtumity to meet our fellow reefers down south and to share our ideas and experience with them as well.Ok this has become a novel,gut I think I got my point across.One last thing,I for one would volunteer my time to help out the club.

Jorge

[alpine]

I am doing some research for ideas for the club from other reef clubs.These links will be what I found.
http://www.bareonline.org/html/projects.html
http://www.cimaquarists.homestead.com/fragswap.html
http://marineclub.homestead.com/index.html

Ok here are a few links to get started and everybody is welcome to add to the list.

Jorge

[jbash]

Jorge-
Can you tell us which LFS said no discounts? they should not be on our list (or else someone needs to contact them and clear up the misunderstanding)

Whirley-
You did attend one field trip-APet is where I met you (if my memory is OK:-)

jim b

[alpine]

jbash
Here is the place that told me they were'nt giving cmas discounts anymore.

Coral Reef Pet Center (Jim/Mitch) -- 7723 W. Lawrence Ave., Norridge 60706
708-456-0768

By the way,did you get my email about the livesand that I sent you?I sent it last week.

Jorge

[whirley]

O YAH!!! Apet!! Chalk one field trip meeting for me!!

:p :p :p

whirley

[mkirda]

Here are a few suggestions I had given to John for next year:

A couple of ideas:

Reef Cookbook: Is it a good idea to give blanket recommendations?
Reef Menu: What various organisms eat.
How much does light really matter?
At what levels do 'nutrients' become 'poisons'?
Best fish for the reef aquarium.
-Could be: Best blennies/Gobies/Angelfish, etc...
When disaster strikes: What to do, how to cope.
Net-caught fishermen in the Philippines: Palauig and Coron.
MAC certification: Pros and cons

I thought I had another list, but cannot find it... Maybe John can find it and post it.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[mkirda]

Originally posted by shawnmarnie
But as far as the video we watched last on imac speaker it bored the hell outa me. I mean the guy made his point in the 1st 1 minute the rest he just said the same thing for an hr.

See, this for me is really, really striking:

Rob Toonen is the first person who has even tried tackling the DSB vs. Plenum debate scientifically. To me, his talk was actually the best of all the ones I experienced at the IMAC. Chock full of data, experiment design, statistics, and how statistics could have been used to lie, the talk was the most informative I think I have been to. Very impressive work.

Boring is not a word that would have come to mind.

I suspect that the reason for the difference is strictly one of experience?
Can you tell me how long you have been in the hobby?

I've told John Brandt in the past that I could see club membership dwindling if I was to choose only programs I wanted to see. (Heck, I'd be flying in coral reef biologists for fairly high level discussions...) But I also read the scientific journals fairly regularly to keep up on who is studying what. I know that what interests me would either make other people's eyes glaze or be beyond the level of what they want to achieve.

Frag swaps to start with are fine: But someone needs to work with us to head this up. And most of all, someone needs to help clean up afterwards. You all should realize what a mess the room was in after the last frag swap- I spent the better part of an hour cleaning up the mess, wiping down every single table and a good number of chairs, all covered in dried up salt water. We could easily lose that space if he had left the room in that condition.

What I would like to see is a number of club members (or potential members) start weighing in on what they want to see. What would it take for you to come to the meeting in December or January or mid-May (typically our most poorly attended meetings)?

Once we get a good list of topics, we can close the floor, then I'll see about starting a poll. We can then work out what would be most popular, and start making the schedule for next year.

Sound like a plan everyone?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[makoshark]

Originally posted by mkirda
When disaster strikes: What to do, how to cope.

[makoshark]

Oops! The above was supppsed to be my vote for disaster recovery.

[mkirda]

Originally posted by makoshark
Oops! The above was supppsed to be my vote for disaster recovery.

Well, I can take the lead on that one.
Although, I think I will want to include other people as well, other stories besides just mine...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[ReefHobbyist]

I have a couple disaster stories. The recovery part isn't so great :( but there was definitely some lessons learned.

Scott

[PacRim]

I liked the tank tours. I love to see other peoples tanks and set-ups. I have seen some great tanks that our members have and I also like your pictures Mike.
I like the idea of the swap, but not at the beginning of the meeting. Most people would just come to trade and leave. They can use a forum like this, if they want to trade. I think one or two swap meetings is O.K.
I also like the field trips we had this year, even though I couldn't make all of them.
Just my two cents.

[shawnmarnie]

In the video that you found amazingly entertaining my point was that he made his point in the 1st minute. I mean it was also interesting how he showed that you can lie on statistics to make it look the way you want. The thing is if it works it works like he said and there is no difference but as far as talks go if that was the most interesting and informative talk you have seen im sorry but for me that tells me not to attend a talk. I have been in the hobby for about 2 years and I appreciate any knowledge about it that someone has to impart to me but the deal with a long scientific discussion that takes 1 hr to show some data that wasnt even finished and then only showed me that there is no difference between the 2 when it pertains to me in no way since I never thought there was and sand works fine for me is boring to me. It had no relavence to me and im sure was interesting to others no doubt but to me wasnt interesting at all. I love to watch informative videos and the only tv I do watch is tlc and discovery channel history channel etc.. but then at least if it's a talk about the granular size of sand etc I can change it. I understand that a club has to try to cater to the majority as best as it can and you can never please everyone it's not possible and I wouldnt even bother cause you can drive yourself crazy best you can do is what is being done now ask for suggestions and see how the majority feels about what should happen. I really enjoyed the 1st video but i felt that was something i coulda watched at home too and at a meeting I would expect to learn something or share some personal experience or trick i had learned etc.. rather then just be entertained. I dont want to seem like some jerk who attends 1 meeting and complains about the club like iv been there long enough to do so even ;) all im saying is what to ME personally would be interesting now someone has to take that along with everyone elses suggestions and see if anyone else feels the same way about anything I have said. I wish more people would post here too because this is a nice way inbetween meetings to share and get help from people I for 1 check here every day after work to see if there is anything new of if I have any questions. Well this really is an essay I just wanted to address the video topic and to say I do realise that it was informative for some and was for me as well just I thought it dragged on way to long and to ME it wasnt exciting but for someone who is really into the scientific aspect of reef building it would probably be more interesting to hear all the details of his research.

[reefkeeper1976]

I've only been a member since January but,so far the meetings have been pretty good. Me personally wasn't completely interested when Kelly J. came to talk about puffers and all but I also don't have any now or ever plan on having them in the future. It was still informative to me in general the special care they need and everything. I think I would like to see field trips still maybe not two in a row but still plan them for sure. I'd like to see a round table type of discussion afew times out of the year as well. I like the frag swaps waiting til the end of the meeting would probably be better so things get started on time too. Well that's my 2 cents anyway.

[makoshark]

As sudo-moderator of this forum, I would like to remind everyone that there are no right or wrong answers just opinions and regardless of your experience you are entitled to it.

I would also like to remind everyone of that which is stated on the CMAS web site.

"Established in January 1993, the Chicagoland Marine Aquarium Society (CMAS) is a nonprofit organization of marine hobbyists brought together by the desire to promote a better understanding of the life we keep in our marine aquariums. Our focus is to increase the longevity of marine life in a controlled environment and to encourage that life to propagate freely. Only through education and the sharing of ideas can we expect a future for our hobby. Anyone interested in advancing these goals is invited to join...

...the regular monthly meetings are really what CMAS is all about. Information exchange is the heart of our society. From homemade wave makers and protein skimmers to Magnum canister filter repair -- debates over calcium levels, cloudy water and pH control as well as helping new hobbyists learn the ropes -- the Chicagoland Marine Aquarium Society caters to the making of all of its members welcome."

Let's keep it civil shall we? :)

[Thomas Sandercock]

We need to keep a balance between what the veteran members need and the new members need.

There seems to be roughly a two year cycle for reefers. The hobby is fascinating for the first year or two. Everything is new. A lot of time is spent on newgroups gathering and exchanging information. Then a significant event: move, tank crash, family etc. interrupts the process and the reefer is gone from the hobby. A few reefers sustain their interest for a longer period, however, most spend less time acquiring and disseminating information. I think these veteran members are important.

The meetings that seem to attract the most veteran members, are events when outside speakers are invited. I know this is my favorite type of meeting. I particularly like the chance to have lunch or dinner following or preceding the talk. I prefer to hear speakers I have not heard before, even it their topic is a bit esoteric (puffer fish for example).

I prefer to have single speakers over the 3 speaker mini seminars. It takes much less work and financial risk for CMAS. I think CMAS takes in enough money to fund two outside speakers a year. I also think CMAS should charge non members to attend. If Dennis continues to run IMAC, in my view, this removes the need for CMAS to have a mini seminars. This is an important topic and probably should be a thread of its own.

The other meetings I find useful are the fraq swaps. This is so important that it alone is a good reason to have a club. The fraqs acquired in a swap meet seem adapted to the aquarium environment. It also allows me to prune my tanks without feeling bad about discarding coral. However, I am a lazy fragger (not intended to be obscene). I do not have time to run a small business. Every few months I am willing to spend an hour cutting and bagging, but that is about it. I still throw away more coral than I swap. I think I remember John Brandt saying he discards frags from clients tanks. It is just not time-money efficient to do otherwise. So, the club cannot exist on frag swaps alone.

Field trips are great. The problem is I think I personally have visited most nearby locations. Still, I think CMAS should continue with field trips, even if the veteran members do not go.

What do you feel about meetings based on slide shows? I personally like them but I am a photographer. There are several excellent underwater photographers in the Chicago area. In general they don’t know much about what they are photographing, other than the names of the organisms, but their pictures are excellent.

In general I dislike discussions. I feel I can read the discussion boards as much as I want. This allows me to skip questions about the best lights, skimmers etc. I think discussions added to a meeting are fine—just not the whole meeting.

So, I propose the following format. We have been having 8 meeting a year with a picnic. I think that is a good number. I think we should have two outside speakers a year (speakers flown in and paid for by CMAS). Two frag swap meets a year, one in the fall, one in the spring. This leaves 4 meetings. These can be filled with a combination of: field trips, local speakers including CMAS members, and discussions. What do you think of this basic format?

Tom Sandercock

[mkirda]

Originally posted by shawnmarnie I dont want to seem like some jerk

Oh, no, not at all.

Seeing your experience level in the hobby, you were not in it at the time of the really heated arguments between those who ran plenums vs. those who ran sandbeds.
This was like five years ago now? Something like that...

Anyway, my point here is also to state that there are no right/wrong answers.

We can't cater completely to the newbies as we can't cater completely to those who have been in the hobby for a decade or more. Some balance has to be achieved. Frankly, I've attended a number of meetings in which I learned nothing. Boring? Maybe. But not always.
I like to help people, so I nearly always get into discussions with people during or after the meetings. This is what makes it worth going to meetings.

One thing that I think we have found is that many people new to the club seem to feel 'dumb'- they do not want to ask questions because they don't want to appear dumb. Which is crazy, because that is the whole reason why we come to the meetings. Discussion groups are great, but face to face is far better because we can ask better questions, and give far better advice.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[alpine]

I think mike and tom both have good points here,but I am leaning more towards mikes side on this one.Also tom,with all the cmas members that are just starting out tanks I see no need for any of us to throw away any frags.I would love to buy more frags from fellow members ,but some of them seem to be in it for the money
and not the hobby.I have some members selling frags for the same price as a lfs.Two scheduled frag swaps a year sounds good as well.Good to hear everybody speaking up on this,because the last meeting seemed like an act of desperation.Was thrown together at the last minute which really isnt cool .The planning committe should of had that figured out well in advance.How hard can it be to plan out 8 meetings?

Jorge

[mkirda]

Originally posted by alpine
the last meeting seemed like an act of desperation.Was thrown together at the last minute which really isnt cool .The planning committe should of had that figured out well in advance.How hard can it be to plan out 8 meetings?

Jorge

Jorge,

Really, it was. On behalf of John and myself, I apologize. It won't happen again. There are a lot of things that are/were going on behind the scenes: things that should be wrapped up shortly.
This will make all of the club's leaders breathe a happy sigh of relief.

I'm calling Sanjay Joshi tonight to see about having him come out next fall. We will just need to work out the dates.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[reefkeeper1976]

I like that format you suggested. It gives alittle bit of everything throughout the year so there would be something for everybody at one point or another I would think.

[shawnmarnie]

I think all the ideas are great maybe we can throw in a meeting too where it's decided what happens by an online poll that could be interesting because then people might feel more involved in the process and attend as well. And if people are throwing away frags hell ill take them im setting up tanks for growing corals now and after they stabalize I want to be able to get a good variety so I can help people get frags without paying an arm and a leg If all works out and they grow well I dont see myself charging for them really because trading is the name of the game. And it to me is kind of like gardening but underwater and the challenge is really nice.

[truepercs]

Maybe a little off the subject but I would be willing to donate a couple of our FrankFurter Converter product for an upcoming meeting. Not exactly reef, but it is a must for anyone who thinks they have everything that the hobby has to offer. Besides I am sure that it will add a little fun to your activity.

In exchange... A couple of photos of the recipient.

Check it out at http://octodog.net


Truepercs:lol:

[alpine]

I am all for the frankfurter thing,but I do not think we are allowed to bring food into the library.We do have a picnic(I hope)that should be coming up soon.It would be fun to have some octodogs on hand to eat :spin3:

Jorge

[whirley]

There seems to be roughly a two year cycle for reefers.


How come I ALWAYS feel like I'm in the first cycle ?!!!

:p :p :p :p :p

whirley

[makoshark]

I just wanted to link this forum to a similar one where ReefHobbyist mentioned Phytoplankton cultures.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=180