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Dlckwood
04/01/2003, 11:31 PM
Someone has to have tried this at one point. Has anyone ever made an anemone split or just did it them selfs.
DAL:p

griss
04/02/2003, 10:05 AM
I don't know of anyone who has ever intentionally tried to split anemones.

On one occasion I was moving some rock around in my tank and accidently tore a BTA in half. I was fortunate that both survived.

Honestly, I would not try to intentionally do this. Anemones are delicate animals and I think your success rate will probably be minimal if at all.

Keep in mind, only some species of anemones reproduce by splitting. For example, if you tried to split a Carpet anemone, I would be willing to bet you would do nothing more than kill the animal as they do not reproduce by splitting ever.

Griss

TIGER SHARK
04/02/2003, 11:48 AM
There have been many threads on this topic but BTA's seem to be the only anemone that that can survive a forced split. That is with optimal water conditions and minimal stress before and after. BTA's also seem to split on their own rapidly with the above conditions along with frequent feedings. I too was asking about this before but I think I will try frequent feeding before I will take a knife to my BTA.

BonsaiNut
04/03/2003, 11:37 AM
if you tried to split a Carpet anemone, I would be willing to bet you would do nothing more than kill the animal as they do not reproduce by splitting ever.

There have been many threads on this topic but BTA's seem to be the only anemone that that can survive a forced split.

Guys, I don't want to be a jerk here, but I think you both wanted to respond with "I have no experience in this area so I don't know". I myself have never tried it, though I have had anemones recover from bad tears, powerhead incidents, etc, which leads me to believe that it might be possible. In my opinion, the biggest issue with anemones is creating the optimal environment. Once in a healthy environment I have found my anemones to be VERY hardy. BTA's have been "forced split" in the past and have survived without problems.

I would bet that I would be able to do it with S. haddoni (saddleback carpet). They have always been extremely hardy for me. To improve chances of success, I would want to start with natural seawater and natural sunlight, which is something I have ample quantities of here in Southern Cal. It is something I have been considering for a while now.

TIGER SHARK
04/03/2003, 12:55 PM
Well theres no need to be a jerk then and actually I did NOT want to respond with your answer. Personally, no, I dont have hands on experience with this and it doesnt look like you do either but you still want to voice your opinion, just like I did. I have done a lot of research and talked to a lot of people about this before and a BTA can be split with a knife and survive. Check out this flame fest I started a while ago... until my buddy prevyet came along and backed me up

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157929

Here is the thread he is talking about, if you look on the last page or two, he talks about what he did and has some pics of his BTA

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106163

Natural sea water and sunlight sounds like it would be the best way to go and if the haddoni seems hardy to you, then why not try it out. Somebodies got to figure out a way to split these anemones before we harvest and kill all of the wild ones. Good luck and let us know if you try it.

BonsaiNut
04/03/2003, 01:10 PM
Fair enough. I was hesitating before I "put my money where my mouth is". I read your earlier thread btw, which is one of the reasons why I commented. For some reason this appears to be an emotionally charged issue, and I don't know why. Look at the tremendous strides this hobby has taken in the last decade, to the extent that we are reproducing in captivity numerous species that people didn't even think could be KEPT in captivity, let alone farmed.

One of the problems I am having at the moment is access to sunlight. My house is a Spanish-style house with overhangs over all the windows. This keeps the house cool in the Summer, but I have no windows with direct sunlight. My wife would kill me if I suggested a greenhouse, so I am kinda stuck. Before I try working on anemones, I want to set up the best possible survival environment. I have kept every clown anemone successfully with the exception of mertensii (which I have never encountered for sale). I even had to give away ritteri anemones when they outgrew my systems. I would love nothing better than to get to the point where blue carpets were available at the same rate as rose BTA's. In my opinion it is not a question of "if" but "when".

TIGER SHARK
04/03/2003, 01:24 PM
I hope you are right about the carpets, the blue and bright green ones are awesome! I do wonder if someone has been cloning them because a LFS was getting these awesome green ones, every week for a while and they were all about 5-6" across, so they looked like clones but maybe thats the min/max size for collection or something. I think someone might have a spawning pair of them in a large tank and that would produce lots of anemones. Other than that, I dont know how you would go about splitting them. Over feeding, with intense light seems to just make them HUGE really fast. But maybe a slow cut right down the middle might work. Some people use large rubber bands to split a brain coral so maybe something like that would work. I would push for the green house thing, just gotta make it big enough for your tanks and a few plants for you wife too.

griss
04/03/2003, 02:34 PM
Bonsai,

The reason I responded the way I did is because Dlckwood has about one year experience in the hobby. Whereas you and I have much more experience. I don't like the idea of suggesting that someone "new" to reef keeping try cutting a Carpet anemone in an effort to get it to divide.

Like you, I have had great success keeping many different anemones over the years. I have kept anemones since 1990 and still would not try force splitting a carpet, despite my success propogating every type of coral (soft, LPS, SPS) I have kept in my aquariums.

Griss

Carlos
04/03/2003, 11:23 PM
I second pretty much everyone here. You cannot split an anemone manually. It is just not in any anemone's nature to do that. You can provide an environment that will induce some of the anemones to split (if you figure out what ticks them make sure to let all of us know) but you cannot litterally split an anemone.

Carlos

BonsaiNut
04/04/2003, 12:26 AM
Carlos, the question is not whether you can manually split an anemone, but what TYPES of anemones you can manually split. It has already been done successfully with BTA's. See the related threads referenced above for successful examples of manual BTA splitting. Granted, BTA's are generally considered the most robust and easy to care for of the clown-hosting anemones. There are other species of clown anemone that have split in aquariums, but much less frequently (H. magnifica, for example) that might be the next candidates for manual attempts. Finally, the hardier carpets (S. haddoni) would be worth an attempt, though I am not aware of anyone witnessing a split in captivity. (I just seem to be incapable of killing a haddoni - they are so hardy for me. I have seen them come back from horrid damage from powerheads and other stupid things I have done, like once when a huge haddoni wrapped itself around a heater that I had put into a temporary transfer tank and fried itself to mush - it was back 100% within a month.)

I would be scared to touch a gigantea at this point, if only because they have been very tempermental for me. If BTA's have been split successfully, let's work on improving our methods, as well as expanding the list of successfully split anemones.

TIGER SHARK
04/04/2003, 01:26 AM
Sorry Carlos, it has been done, and I did provide links to the pages that show how it was done, with pics also. I think BonsaiNut is right too on what types can you split. Hopefully if experienced reefers keep trying new things, and share their findings, we can support the hobby someday with all aquacultured animals. Its a long shot but you gotta shoot for something big right?

Aquaman
04/04/2003, 03:45 PM
if you tried to split a Carpet anemone, I would be willing to bet you would do nothing more than kill the animal as they do not reproduce by splitting ever. That is correct, Especially Haddoni carpet anemone's, They do not reproduce by splitting not even under duress conditions! Ever

and if the haddoni seems hardy to you, then why not try it out
I can tell you from experience that if you try to cut a Haddoni carpet anemone to force a split You WILL Kill it I'm willing to bet any amount of money on this!. I tried playing god with these animals once! I will not try again!

BTA's are a whole different animal!

I'd rather see someone get the anemone's to reproduce normally by releasing sperm and egg. If that can be accomplished then the demand for ocean caught carpet anemones would be reduced to zero within a few years. Unfortunetly I've only heard of one person that has managed to get them to spawn! Dr. Shimek. I've been keeping a pair of Haddoni carpets for 5 years now and have yet to get them to spawn.

TIGER SHARK
04/04/2003, 04:15 PM
Aquaman thats what I was thinking that it would be best to get a spawning pair. So you really tried to cut yours a while ago? WOW at least we know. How can you tell that you have a pair of Haddoni or do you just have 2 of them? and not necessaryily a mated pair. How big is your tank? I think I read about Dr. Rons pair but I dont think he was able to keep any babies alive was he? I think a mated pari would just need a huge tank so when it does release the sperm and eggs, it doesnt foul the tank water, and the process can occur naturally. But it sounds like a lot of work but would also be for a very good cause.

griss
04/05/2003, 09:58 PM
Just talked to Dr Ron and he agrees with Aquaman. Force splitting a Carpet anemone will kill it in his opinion.

Griss

griss
04/05/2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Aquaman
I'd rather see someone get the anemone's to reproduce normally by releasing sperm and egg. If that can be accomplished then the demand for ocean caught carpet anemones would be reduced to zero within a few years.
Amen Aquaman....that would be awesome. In the next few years I will be upgrading my tank (after a home move, when we can afford it) from a 200 to a 450 or 500. When that happens, I plan to add another blue carpet or two to see if I can encourage this.

Griss

BonsaiNut
04/07/2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Aquaman
I'd rather see someone get the anemone's to reproduce normally by releasing sperm and egg.

I could not agree more. Does anyone know how this is accomplished? I have never witnessed a haddoni trying to spawn, though I have kept numerous individuals for years, including multiples in the same tank. I have had fish spawn, shrimp spawn, clams spawn, corals spawn, etc, but never anemones (that I was able to tell). Any thoughts / ideas would be great!

Note that my comments on trying to get anemones to manually split are driven only by my desire to move to captive bred creatures for the trade. I think we all agree on the ends, but just need to figure out the best means.

griss
04/07/2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by BonsaiNut
I could not agree more. Does anyone know how this is accomplished? I have never witnessed a haddoni trying to spawn, though I have kept numerous individuals for years, including multiples in the same tank. I have had fish spawn, shrimp spawn, clams spawn, corals spawn, etc, but never anemones (that I was able to tell). Any thoughts / ideas would be great!
Bonsai,

I am not 100% sure, but I believe Dr. Ron has had Carpets spawn in his tanks. You might want to post this question in his forum.

Originally posted by BonsaiNut
Note that my comments on trying to get anemones to manually split are driven only by my desire to move to captive bred creatures for the trade. I think we all agree on the ends, but just need to figure out the best means.
I completely understand you my friend. I feel the same way. I would love nothing more than to see ONLY captive grown anemones for sale.

Griss