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msb_1971
03/26/2003, 12:56 AM
Anthony,

Wow so many questions. I am currently experiencing an ich problem and would like some advice. I have read as much as could find on the net including all of the related topics at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm .

I feel some background info is in order just to give you a better ideal of the problem, and my experience, or lack there of which is perhaps the problem.

I have been reading books and everything on the web related to reef keeping for around 5 years, yep I have your book and am awaiting the new one. Reading and executing, two entirely different animals, I set up my first salt water tank January 1st 2003.

As short and sweet as possible it is a small tank, 30 gallons. I also set up a refugium above the tank at the same time the tanks matured or cycled together. The tank is doing well in terms of my small frags all growing like weeds. I think in part to the refugium and its healthy population of pods and shrimp, but I digress.

Please remain seated as you read this next part. Ok, its like this I bought fish at a LFS, I am form Pittsburgh, and dumped them right in…

I know now that they should have been isolated and I have been sufficiently chastised, I think, but go ahead if you must. Three weeks, three weeks, three weeks see I have it beat into my head now. Now on to the Ich I have tried upping the temp, 82, and garlic supplements, to no avail. I just set up my treatment tank in the basement, it is a 10 gallon, no substrate it does have a few small rocks for cover, they were “dead� base rocks and will forever be for the treatment tank. It has a heater a light and a canister filter. This is where I am getting confused. There are so many things out there that all seem to contradict each other, please help. In the canister I have the basic foam floss and some ceramic filter media that was used to aid the cycle of my main tank. Can the said media be used or will it interfere with the copper treatment? Ok more questions often I read that the treatment tank should bee as similar in terms of water parameters as the main tank, so should I leave the salt hi and just treat with copper or gradually lower it once the fish are in. And for the love of god once and for all how long will the tank, the main tank, need to remain fishless to do the parasite in once and for all. I have read 30 days 60 days and even 90 days, I have also read it will never completely go away.

Well if you managed to get this far,
Thanks Much,
Michael in da’ Burgh n’at.

msb_1971
03/26/2003, 08:53 AM
Hello again,

I also neglected to mention that I have also tried natural methods of control like cleaner shrimp and 2 neon gobies, one of the gobies died, of Ich I presume.

Thanks Again,
Michael

Anthony Calfo
03/26/2003, 11:17 AM
--- Cheers, my friend

I know now that they should have been isolated [in Quarantine]and I have been sufficiently chastised, I think, but go ahead if you must. Three weeks, three weeks, three weeks see I have it beat into my head now.


--- alas... too many of us learn this lesson the hard way. Know that there are no exceptions. Everything must be QT'ed at home (plants, algae, live rock, fishes, corals, etc) to screen for parasites, pests and diseases. Even sitting in the LFS for 4 weeks doesn't count if an employee dipped their algae scrubber or net in an infected tank and then your fishes' tank 5 minutes before you showed up to buy :p Play it safe in the future and you will have far fewer problems :) No exceptions


Now on to the Ich I have tried upping the temp, 82, and garlic supplements, to no avail.


--- Neither is a primary means of treatment... they are secondary/supportive at best. Once infected, fish need to be isolated (4 weeks ;) ) while the display runs fallow without a viable host. Daily water changes from the bottom of the tank for 8 consecutive days can actually break the cycle (Ich) without meds in some cases... but play it safe and do FW dips and/or Formalin treatments to be safe. 3-5 FW dips in 5 days is quite effective. 3 minutes min... preferably 5-7 minutes if the species is tolerant. Anything less than 3 minutes is literally a waste of time. Fishes acting sluggish or laying down in the bucket is normal... but spitting water at the surface is great duress and warrants early pull from the dip.


I just set up my treatment tank in the basement, it is a 10 gallon, no substrate it does have a few small rocks for cover, they were “dead� base rocks and will forever be for the treatment tank.


--- no rocks or anything porous, my friend. Harbors pathogens, Use PVC fittings/pipe instead or other plastics


It has a heater a light and a canister filter. This is where I am getting confused. There are so many things out there that all seem to contradict each other, please help. In the canister I have the basic foam floss and some ceramic filter media that was used to aid the cycle of my main tank. Can the said media be used or will it interfere with the copper treatment?


---all good


Ok more questions often I read that the treatment tank should bee as similar in terms of water parameters as the main tank, so should I leave the salt hi and just treat with copper or gradually lower it once the fish are in.


---- a slow stray (.002 per day) down to 1.018 would he helpful. Keep heavy aeration and a very steady temp (fluctuations are quite bad here)


And for the love of god once and for all how long will the tank, the main tank, need to remain fishless to do the parasite in once and for all. I have read 30 days 60 days and even 90 days, I have also read it will never completely go away.


--- some of the above: 30 days to be "safe" (hence the reason for a proper 4 week QT... anything likely to be expressed will be in 4 weeks), but no fish tank or fish is ever "sterilized". There is always a chance of reoccurrance. A repeat is caused by an event of stress, however.... daily temperature fluctuations are very bad... two heaters in the main display for stability is highly recommended. Be mindful of water change and evap temps too. Also, do look up and visit your local aquarium society www.pmasi.org they have a forum on this board). Great club ;)

Kind regards,

Anthony

msb_1971
03/26/2003, 11:31 AM
Anthony,

Thanks for the fast reply and solid answers to my questions. I have in my life had many hobbies, but bar-none this hobby has the most friendly and helpful participants. To the person everyone I have asked for help has gone out of their way to aid a newbie.

Much Thanks,
To a bunch of great people

Michael

Anthony Calfo
03/26/2003, 11:39 AM
Always welcome my friend :)

And yes... it truly is a hobby/industry of overwhelmingly kind-hearted people!

BTW.. the link to the local club I gave you above was inaccurate... it should be www.pmas.org but the club is now named PMASI (incorporated)

Best of luck in your endeavors!

Anthony

msb_1971
03/26/2003, 03:55 PM
While I have your ear, could you answer another related question? While the tank is empty and running “fallow� what will become of the established bacteria in the tank. I guess my question is will the bio-load and holding capacity be affected? The tank does have shrimp, pods, snails and hermits. After treatment do the fish, 3 fish, have to be reintroduced at a gradual rate? Will the tank show signs cycling again? Is mike just thinking too much?

Thanks Again,
Michael

Anthony Calfo
03/26/2003, 05:46 PM
Very good question, Mike!

Indeed... a fallow tank unfed/unassisted will wane in biological activity as it pertains to nitrifying faculties.

Some folks simply feed a little (small amount!) of food to provide matter/mass for the colony in the interim... others use a more sophisticated (and cleaner) technique of dosing ammonium chloride or sodium nitrate (should not register on a test kit ... small amount again) to feed the "filter" (mechanical or natural substrates).

Without a food source to displace the bio-mass (sick fishes) removed to QT... the "filter" colony will indeed wane and the return of the fishes may require extra water changes while the it catches back up to the old load.

Ultimately, it is easily remedied as per above... but really a thoughtful question.

Kudos again Mike, and kind regards to all

Anthony