Closesd up Zooanthids

[Pyrojon]

About 2 weeks ago one particular type of zooanthid suddenly closed up. One colony one day, another the next and the third the next. They were all the same type of zooanthid.

It's been about two weeks and they have not opened at all, they are also starting to show signs of receding.

I have done water changes thinking it was something out of balance, no response. I also can't find anything out of wack with any of my tests.

I have about 8 diffrent kinds/colors of zoos and only this one type (green with pale purple center) seems effected.


Any thoughts?

Thanks
Jon

[musicsmaker]

I also can't find anything out of wack with any of my tests. Could you post the specs? Also, what is your daytime pH vs. your nighttime pH? Any swings in temp?

[holeinone1972]

Did you look for nudibranchs, or predatory snails?

[Pyrojon]

I also can't find anything out of wack with any of my tests.


That really should have read
"I can't find anything NEW out of wack.."

I have been fighting with my water chemistry for years. I have extremly high levels of Ca (700+) and have not been able to determine why. (or if it's a bad thing) My Alk is in the normal range. I don't know what the PH range is exactly (8.2 - 7.9 or so) but it's not a crazy change overnight.

Because all of my regularly out of wack parameters are still just as out of wack as they have always been I don't see it as a cause for this sudden change in zooanthid attitude.

I have looked for nudibranchs and snails, nothing that I can see.


Someone suggested I try adding Iodine but I don't have an Iodine test kit so I really don't know where it is. I figured water changes would correct any chemistry problems like that. Didn't help.

Thanks
Jon

[bookfish]

If your zoos were thriving before and you haven't changed your maintenance I would look at either a slow buildup of something bad-many options here- that the particular morph might be more sensitive to, or a problem with your tapwater. It seems that a persistently high calcium could be a result of very element rich tap water. I used to live in Newton and was keeping some killifish that required softer water. I used to collect rain water, carbon and diatom filter it and use it in the tanks. Made all the difference.
Another (expensive) alternative would be to get an RO unit for the tapwater or buy natural salt water.
-Jim

[musicsmaker]

I have extremly high levels of Ca (700+) and have not been able to determine why. I would do a few searches on Ca, and read this (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm) article. It's all about solving Ca + alk problems, and is EASY to understand. With a 700+ reading, I think your test kit might be misinforming you. One of the chem experts can confirm this or not. But, I don't even thing Ca can get that high. :confused:

[Pyrojon]

I do have and RO unit, tested with TDS meter regularly. I have also tested the RO water for Ca and it's zero or very close to it.

I have had my Ca tested by many diffrent LFSs with many diffrent kinds of test kits, they all give the same results.

I didn't think Ca could get that high either, apparently the laws of chemistry and physics don't apply in my reef.


Thanks
Jon

[Diesel Man]

How long have the zoos been in the tank? And just for kicks, what colors?
What kind of lights do you have.
Have you used puddy to glue anything in the tank, my zoos hate puddy. or any forien stuff like glues.
Your ca,,,do you have crushed coral or something like that on the bottom? Sand? Limestone rocks?
Try taking some zoos out and put them in another tank with differant water, even if its a buckit with an air stone. They should open. if its the water. If they are very stressed they could take days to open even after you have the water straightend out.
Good luck:) Greg

[Pyrojon]

Originally posted by Diesel Man
How long have the zoos been in the tank?

Probably Two years at least, they have been doing well till now.

And just for kicks, what colors?


Above it says green with pale purple center



What kind of lights do you have.



2x250W MH and 2x96w PC Actinic



Have you used puddy to glue anything in the tank, my zoos hate puddy. or any forien stuff like glues.



Havn't used puddy for years. Hadn't used an CA glue for a couple months before they closed up.


Your ca,,,do you have crushed coral or something like that on the bottom? Sand? Limestone rocks?



About 2"+ of crushed coral then about 1"+ of southdown on top. My substrate is not turning into bricks.


Try taking some zoos out and put them in another tank with differant water, even if its a buckit with an air stone. They should open. if its the water. If they are very stressed they could take days to open even after you have the water straightend out.
Good luck:) Greg

Unfortunatly I don't have another tank to put them in. I could try the bucket but if it's going to be days how will they survive that long?




Thanks alot.
Jon

[Diesel Man]

Interesting.
I collect zoos, I keep them in buckets till I have room in the pens. I have airstones in the buckets and a mechanics lamp over the bucket. Havnt killed one in a bucket yet. and they open pretty quick, but yours have got me puzzeled. Keep changing the water.
Best of luck, Greg

[Pyrojon]

I just removed two of the three effected colonies, they don't look good at all. Mostly "dissolved" away. I don't expect them to live.

I really have no idea why this particular type of zoos closed up suddenly. I have at least 8 other colors/types in the tank and this one type is the only one effected.

Thanks for your help

Jon

[Diesel Man]

So they arnt just closed they are dieing and turning white??? get them out if you have alot. Take a good wiff and youll see you need to change the water again. Amonya???? how is it. Did you lose a fish or something else. I lost a fish behind the rocks and when he died the zoos closed and a clam went with him also for no reason. I guess nothing lives forever even in the wild, but it sounds like your water is off. Id go buy a 5 gallon tank and put fresh saltwater in it, then try to save some zoos before yours crash. Hows the rest of the tank.
Also I took out the crushed coral and went with just sand when I had your ca problem. You could always chuck in a couple of clams, theyd eat that ca right up. But Id start pulling out the coral and replace with more sand, it worked for me, now Im back to adding ca, like it should be:)
Best of luck, start fraging those zoos before they all go. Your friends will love you, and you can get the frags back after the tank settels. Best luck again. Greg

[Pyrojon]

Originally posted by Diesel Man
So they arnt just closed they are dieing and turning white??? get them out if you have alot. Take a good wiff and youll see you need to change the water again. Amonya???? how is it. Did you lose a fish or something else. I lost a fish behind the rocks and when he died the zoos closed and a clam went with him also for no reason. I guess nothing lives forever even in the wild, but it sounds like your water is off. Id go buy a 5 gallon tank and put fresh saltwater in it, then try to save some zoos before yours crash. Hows the rest of the tank.
Also I took out the crushed coral and went with just sand when I had your ca problem. You could always chuck in a couple of clams, theyd eat that ca right up. But Id start pulling out the coral and replace with more sand, it worked for me, now Im back to adding ca, like it should be:)
Best of luck, start fraging those zoos before they all go. Your friends will love you, and you can get the frags back after the tank settels. Best luck again. Greg \

Sheesh, calm down. The tank is fine. :)

All tests show everything is cool. A small ammount of zoanthids dying in my 100 gallon system is not going to show any ammonia. Nothing else has died and nothing else is showing any sign of stress. I am however doing more frequent water changes.

As far as the Ca is concerned my PH is not low enough to significantly dissolve the substrate and if that were happening the sand bed would be turning into solid bricks. It isn't.
I suppose the high Ca could be due to my substrate, but I can't seem to find out if high Ca is a bad thing or not. The only thing anyone will tell me is that the Ca will precipitate out of the water ("snow storm") and that can cause some problems, but this isn't happening, and never has.

I really don't think that the Ca is the problem as I have had high calcium since long before I got these zoanthids.

This is what they used to look like.
http://24.61.19.224/pics/reef/greenbuttonmother.jpg

[Diesel Man]

Oh 100gallons. yeah I woudnt sweat that either. I have a 20long with a big rock so theres less than 20g in my tank, I would freek with any dieoff. But 100g's your right.
Im just going to chalk this one up on the 10% rule. 10% of the stuff in your tank dies for no reason, usually the stuff you like the most. Hope somebody figuers it out for you.
Hey they looked nice though. I have some just like that. If they die off come pletly I'll send you a frag of mine. Greg

[Pyrojon]

First time I have ever heard of the 10% rule, looks like that's going to be the only answer to this one.

Thanks for the offer, I think I will take you up on it. I don't have a single one of those left that isn't closed up and looking mighty close to dead. I wish I knew what it was.

Thanks
Jon

[john rochon]

I know you've had your cal, tested at other places but 700! na
You would have a snow storm as you stated and corraline and corals would just love it anyways. Sometimes Zoo,'s just do this?
I have a collony of Buttons[not Zoo's] that for some reason or other look crappy now no matter what I do?

[sherryq]

Hi Jon,
Sorry to hear about your zoos. Just as a note. At the February BRS meeting I bought one of your beautiful green tree corals which had some zoos on it. The zoos never opened and then after a couple of weeks they disappeared. All other zoos in my tank are doing fine. I wonder if these were the same type of zoos which haven't opened. If so maybe it isn't water quality realted. By the way the green tree coral is doing great - very pretty!

Sherry

[Pyrojon]

I was going to ask you how they did. Those were exactly the ones that died. I am glad that your tree is doing well though, it loves light and will open up like the happiest soft coral you have ever seen if you give it lots of light. I have mine at about the highest point in my tank under a pair of 250W MH and a pair of 96W PCs, maybe 10" below the bulbs.


Btw, I have lost all of the zoos of that particular type, strangly they did not go all at once but one colony at a time till they were all gone. It's very interesting that yours went as well.


As for the calcium, everything that I have read and believe tells me that my Ca readings are wrong, though I have had the water tested in many places in 4 diffrent states! All tests read similar values, and nonone else believes it either.

My thought is that there is something in the water that is interfearing with the test kit and causing it to read higher then it should be.