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View Full Version : New to Saltwater, need help!


lowpro1
01/24/2003, 08:32 AM
i have a 20H tank that im going to set up salt. now my problem is whith fish. i dont know which one si can keep, so here are my thoughts. i wanted to get a mandrain fish and keep him as the main fish with a few clowns possibly. i know that they are hard to care for because of there eating habbits, but im trying to find a way to do all i can to make them happy. my other option would jus to be add a few firefish, some clowns, a damsile ect...now it doesnt matter to me which i go with, because i will go all out with doing whatever possibly to keep any of my fish alive and well, please give me your input.

mswt5
01/24/2003, 09:44 AM
i too at one time thought that I could keep a mandarin....haha
i think it could be possible in a small tank....but if i were to try again i would have him by himself
and ill tell you why
You can train them to eat frozen brine, or at least I got mine too.
He wouldnt eat them at first tho.....I had to feed him live brine for a while. What I think it was was I would buy live brine, and after about a week the brine in the bag would start to die one by one. Well...when I would feed he would start eating the dead brine too. Not just the live. And after a couple of months I started to feed with frozen and since he was used to eating dead ones.....GULP!
The reason I would keep him by himself is because they are very slow at getting food....they take their time. Also, I dont think they see very well. They wait till the food is right next to them before eating it. Because of this the other fish gobble up all of the food before he can get some. Meaning you have to feed more. In a small tank thats not good...:(
Another thing I found helpful was shutting off all of your flow except for maybe one little powerhead when you feed. By doing this you slow down the speed of floating brine and lets your mandarin have a chance to find em....also hell know after a while that when those pumps go off.....its feeding time....and and he'll get ready for food. And if your using a filter this keeps all of the brine from getting sucked up before he gets any too. I found that when I would turn all circulation off they brine would sink right to the bottom and pile up a little on the sandbed....and he would just come right out and have himself a little buffet
Well....i hope your were talking about mandarins becuase I would sure feel dumb if you meant Mandrains
Oh yeah....If you decide to keep one....You may want to use a refugium as well to keep you pod populations up. Or atleast existent. And have a good amount of live rock for him to swim around and pick off of.
Well....I think thats about all I can say on that subject...Im sure some will probably disagree...but oh well.
Good luck....they are fun fish

lowpro1
01/24/2003, 09:56 AM
hey mswt5:

thanx alot for the information, it truly has helped me out. yes i did plan on keeping one of these fish in my tank by himself sor the fact that he is jus simply an amazing fish. and i jus have 2 questions to throw out right now,

1) what are "pod piles", and how can i build some to keep my pod level up?

2) how could i go about building a refug? i have a empty 10 gallon tank that i would like to use if that would help keep my mandarin happy and healthy.

Like i said, i will go out on the line to keep this fish in perfect conditions. So any advice with how to keep him alive in a 20g high tank would be very appreciated. thank you.

|ReEFnEwB1E|
01/24/2003, 11:30 AM
MSWT5 you are the lucky few that have Mandarins eating BRINE or anything like that for that matter. Congrats :)

Lowpro1 I did a search and notice you had this same post in another forum but anyways your chances of keeping a Mandarin alive in a "NEWLY" setup tank is zilch unless you become the lucky few that have Mandarins eating prepared food. Copepods, Worms and tiny parasites that these fishes eat take awhile to develope in a tank, but if you must I would probably ask the LFS guy what he feeds his Mandarins and also shop around maybe you will find a LFS that actually already has Mandarins eating Brine Shrimp. This way your chances get alot better at keeping this fish. I have heard from some "EXPERTS" in this hobby that even in their "MATURED" tanks they have lost Mandarins due to starvation. I would love to have one of these guys too but my tank is too new for me so I will refrain for now and consider it later on down the road. LONG ROAD to go! ;)

lowpro1
01/24/2003, 02:10 PM
whats up reef:

yea, i kno that they do need a muture tank, but hey, im willing to wait. becasue when you rush things like this people tend to really mess things up. and i was at my LPS when i seen these fish in person. they are beautiful little fish and i started talking to the lady who ran it. she said that when they get theres in, that they feed theirs frozen brine shrimp and regular live brine and they do fine. so im crossing my fingers and maybe down the rod in a few months when i see lil life forms in my tnak, i will get one of these fish and keep you guys posted on how he does.

Flanders
01/24/2003, 02:14 PM
Mandarins eat constantly, all day long. It needs a constant supply of pods to survive EVEN if you train it to eat frozen. 55 gallon tank packed full of rock is the bare minimum.

I can't say this enough - frozen alone cannot sustain these fish. In that size tank it will starve. Please don't try it.

mswt5
01/24/2003, 03:35 PM
I think its possible....but thats my opinion from my experiences.
If you were to get one to eat frozen brine. Maybe I was just lucky. But if you fed it once in the morning and once at night he WOULD be fine. The tiny little life forms that he picks off the rocks are sooooo tiny that most of the time you cant see them. I would see mine gulp down about 10-15 big brine and have a full belly. I had him in a 29 gal with about 25 lbs live rock. And he was FAT. And that was feeding only once a day. Theres no way you can convince me that if you fed him twice a day till he was full that he wouldnt live.
OH YEAH....the questions
I dont know where you got Pod Piles....?
but as for the refugium, do some searching on the forum with the search feature at the top of the page....
I would go with the refug above the main tank....have it drilled so the pods dont have to travel through a pump to get to the main tank.....do searches....thats the best way to get answers around here
when you ask a question in a post you only get some people looking at it giving answers and everyone has their own opinions on things...if you search your bound to see a hundred different answers...and more help that way
good luck

lowpro1
01/24/2003, 04:29 PM
thanx mswt5 you are the only one that thinks that it is possible. but what do you mean set the fug up above my main tank? most i herd of sat inside the stand of the tank. and i got "pod piles" from a differant thread. someone was tlaking about it and mentioned that haveing "pod piles" scattered around your tnak help keep the pod population up. but i will do alot of research you better believe and you will deffly see a post from me here in the nano reef section in the months to come telling you how everything is going. thank you guys for your help!!

Flanders
01/24/2003, 05:06 PM
mswt5 wrote:
i too at one time thought that I could keep a mandarin....haha

Uh... remind us what happened to your mandarin and how long you had it, because it sounds like it's not around today.

lowpro, I just did a thread search and realized you've asked this question in three different spots. While it might be tempting to go with the answer that you want to hear, remember that it might not be the best answer - as evidenced by the numerous other answers to the contrary.

Good luck with your tank.

lowpro1
01/24/2003, 10:09 PM
thing is, someone told me to post that in the nano reef sectino concidering thats what i will have. and im not totaly disagreeing with any one here, but i think that if i put enough work into this project, and enough time, i think that everything will work out for itself. beacsue i hear that mandrians can be fed live baby brine shrimp if the water flow is cut off during feeding. that and i plan on keeping a large pod population by ordering adult breeding pods and keeping them in a hang on refugium untill they have populated alot. and between the pods and the brine shrimp, feeding 2 or even 3 times a day, and letting my tank settle and cycle for a long time, i think that maybe i have a shot of keeping one of these marvelous fish in a nano reef. and if by some chance i dont have any luck, atleast i tried and can learn from the experiance. but i will keep you guys posted and keep my fingers crossed.

mswt5
01/27/2003, 12:03 AM
Uh... remind us what happened to your mandarin and how long you had it, because it sounds like it's not around today.

well...the reason i said that was becuase he did die....sadly
I had him for about 9 months. His death was due to me not being around to take care of him... At the time I was busy with school, didnt have a stable home, was in the proccess of going into the military and getting married, and only got to see my tank maybe once a week. Someone else was taking care of it and didnt really care. I also lost a colt coral that took up a quarter of the tank during that time. :(
so i havent been completely successful in the long term yet....but that doesnt mean i dont think it can be done

lowpro1
01/27/2003, 08:54 AM
after doing my h/w i decided to wait till i get more experiance until i get this fish and a bigger tank. they are beautiful fish and i should leave them in the sea insted of buynig one and killing it. i decided to get a dwarf angel, 2 firefish, and a scooter dragonette. thanks for the info guys

Flanders
01/27/2003, 09:27 AM
lowpro, I think you made the right decision. Remember, though, that scooters have a similar diet to the mandarins, although they usually take frozen food more readily. I think the angel and firefish could outcompete the scooter for food, because they are also very slow eaters.

Good luck with your tank! Eventually I'm sure you'll upgrade and be able to support a mandarin more easily. In a tank this size, it's just a struggle - although I'll agree with everyone that it is probably possible. They are incredible fish.

lowpro1
01/27/2003, 06:39 PM
so what fish would be a good choice to go with the angel and firefish? i was thinking maybe a damesil but iherd that they are aggressive...what do you guys think on this situation? what peaceful and small fish can i keep?

clowdy
01/28/2003, 05:44 AM
fire fish would be a great choice, they are easy to keep and very pretty. i am also a big fan of clowns. you really can't beat a false percula, they are hardy and fun to watch and docile as clowns go. damsels are ok when they are young but get pretty mean when they get older. if you do decide to get one make sure you do NOT get a domino damsel (black with a white dot) they will beat up every thing in your tank.

lowpro1
01/28/2003, 07:58 AM
what do you guys know about filefish? i saw a few that looked really nice and stay small. would thee be a good choice? jus trying to get some info and make sure i make the right choice about this.

2hi4u2c
01/28/2003, 06:13 PM
Hey lowpro1, I noyiced that nobody answered you're question on pod piles, They are piles of rubble rock(roughly golfball size) in a tank or refugium that provides pods a preditor free area to multiply. It is the best, if not only, way to keep a mandarin in a smaller tank. I have a friend that sucessfuly kept one in a 20g long for 2 years. (He had to tear it down for collage) He had a 10g over the 20 that the bottom was covered in rubble rock, and macro algae creating an exellent place for pods to multiply, and a "pod pile" in the main tank also. The 10g was over the main tank so the return to the main tank was gravity feed eliminating a pump that would cause a high mortality rate for the pods. He also let his tank "mature" for 6 mo. before he added the mandarin, so there would be a strong pod population. I set up my 75g again last month with a mandarin in mind, so I put in a pod pile, and with in a month, I have tons around the pile!!
Alan