Problems with Snails

[GOOD (G)REEF]

I have these snails that were fine yesterday when I bought them, but now look very lathargic and unhealthy. Two of them just let their feet hang out of their shells even though they are still alive, and the other one is also limp even though he is hanging onto the glass. My calcium level (I just checked it) is 200 ppm. I will start dripping kalk as soon as the silicon on my DIY dripper cures.




Ammonia=0,
Nitrite=0,
Nitrate=8,
SG=1.025,
Phosphates=.1,
Copper=0,
Calcium=200,
pH=8.1-8.3.



The ammonia, nitrite, and copper tests all show a little cloudiness, but not enough to warrant the lowest reading. In other words, I believe the cloudiness is just the absolute lowest reading available. The red legs that I also got yesterday are showing no ill effects. I can't find the nassarious snails, so the main problem is with the astrea snails. I ordered a 5 stage RO/DI unit which should be here sometime next week, at which time I will do a large water change. I am also getting some caulerpa. I can't figure out what could be giving me problems. I don't know if any of you recall this, but I had to restart my tank due to a mysterious crash over the summer. I couldn't keep inverts alive after that for some reason. Water is from a well. We have no copper pipes. Water is run through a TWP (Tap Water Purifier) that probably needs a new cartridge. Salt is Instant Ocean. Remora skimmer with MJ 1200 for filtration. I do not run carbon or anything else like that. Should I? 3-4" substrate of HD sand. Good amount of brown film agal groth over the 55 pounds of LR. 30X flow rate not calculating head loss for return pump. Should I add another PH? What should I do and what copuld be causing this? My snails are not dead yet but look like they are well on their way. They were perfectly healthy and very active yesterday until a couple of hours after I added them. Nassarious snails are hiding but still seems fine when I see them. The red legs are fine like I said. They were all acclimated in the same bag for approximately 30-45 min. before adding them to the tank. Thanks for any help!.

UPDATE: Atleast one of the nass. snails is absolutely fine. SO how can it be that one type is effected and the other is not?

[rshimek]

Hi

Originally posted by GOOD (G)REEF
I have these snails that were fine yesterday when I bought them, but now look very lathargic and unhealthy. ..... Nassarious snails are hiding but still seems fine when I see them. The red legs are fine like I said. They were all acclimated in the same bag for approximately 30-45 min. before adding them to the tank. Thanks for any help!.

I suspect the problem is one of salinity acclimation. I would expect that you may have to acclimate for several hours. Many of the grazing snails we use are very intolerant of rapid salinity shifts when they are stressed - and moving stresses them severely. If the LFS water was much different from yours, this could account for some of the problems.

You might benefit by doing a search through the RC archives for snail acclimation problems and see what has been said before.

UPDATE: Atleast one of the nass. snails is absolutely fine. SO how can it be that one type is effected and the other is not?

All snails are not created equal. The differences in internal morphology and physiology between a Nassarius and, say, an Astraea grazer, are at least as great as the differences between a human and a lizard, for example.

[GOOD (G)REEF]

I thought that 30-45 minutes would have been enoug but I guess not. Wouldn't they have shown signs of stress immediately after introduction to the tank? In any case, thanks for the advice, and I will do a search for this info. now. And I even know how to spell their names now :)

[GOOD (G)REEF]

I did a search and not a whole lot was said. I guess there is nothing I can do. The place I got them from has a 22 or 23 ppt salinity reading at 74 degrees F. My tank is 1.025 at 81 degrees F which is 36 ppt. A big difference from my LFS'. That just seems so low!!! Can they keep them alive like that?

[rshimek]

Hi Jon,

I will be posting some remarks as to the reason for this type of mortality soon. It appears that most of these snails (not the Nassarius) are intertidal, and are probably collected when exposed at low tide. They are then shipped moist to a distributor and acclimated to their tanks. See this thread for a discussion of damp shipping.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=14115

After they are acclimated to these low salinities, the snails can live for a few weeks. During this period they get shipped to the LFS. Here they are also kept in low salinity. Reacclimating in new water - as when you buy them - takes time and care.

When you get them and try to bring them up to reef normal water, they have to acclimated very slowly. A faster means of acclimation might simply be to set them out of water, let them retract into the shell and sit a room temperature for about a hour (this should not hurt) them. I think during the dry down period they will exude extra water, raising their internal salinity. Then put them in tank water. I suspect they would acclimate just fine.

[GOOD (G)REEF]

That's an interesting method of acclimation. Has it worked many times before?

[rshimek]

Howdy,

As far as I know, this was the first time it was suggested. I think it ought to work, but really don't know if it will. If you try it, do post and let us know the outcome.

[GOOD (G)REEF]

Okay, I think I may try it with one or two snails, and then I will post my findings on the board. I know two snail;s isn't exactly a very professional experiment, but I have limited funding, and I don't want to kill my snails. Now if someone were to fund my research....:D

[rshimek]

Originally posted by GOOD (G)REEF
Now if someone were to fund my research....:D

....ROFL...

I seem to have the same problem :D

Let us know how it turns out, please and thanks!

[Guy]

Dr. Ron,

I now always acclimate snails in a manner similar to your suggestion. I accidently stumbled upon the technique about 20 years ago and I have not lost a snail due to acclimation stress since. It could not be easier...

Wipe down a small area inside the tank, but above the waterline, to remove any salt creep. Take the snail out of the water and hold it next to the clean area. They will come out of their shell once you make contact with the glass and stick there. Done! Leave them alone.

They will travel down to the waterline and stop for a while. They will sit there for an hour or so, but I have had them stay at the waterline for more than a day before entering the water. HTH

[rshimek]

Guy,

VERY NEAT!!!

Will have to give it a try.

[Justdrew]

Hey Good,

Just curious, which LFS?

Thank
Drew

[Northern Reef]

Hey Guy--That sounds like a great suggestion! Thanks.