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View Full Version : considering seahorses, but have a question


goot
11/25/2002, 10:14 PM
Hi there. I am considering getting a pair of seahorses through an ad in the back of Marine and Reef annual. Seafarms is the name, anybody had any prior experience with them? They are rather cheap, so of course I have to worry....

Also, here is my big question. The tank I am considering putting them into is my 55 gal reef (still in the beginning stages) tank. There tank mates would be 2 percula clowns, a domino damsel, a pygmy angel. And I was wondering what the more experienced of you might have to say about this? Is this a suitable partership? And would feeding them be a problem with the other fish?

Thanks for your time and help,

Respectfully,
Goot

Mairi
11/25/2002, 11:32 PM
HI Goot,

the answer is NO.

For starters, the horses are most likely wild caught, and therefore very suceptible to stress and disease.

Next, the fish you have there will simply stress seahorses to death.

Seahorses require gentle tankmates who will not out-compete for food or swim fast, damsels will pick at a horse like you wouldn't believe! They also need a current 3-5x the volume, not the sort of water flow you would normally have for those fish.

Seahorses are better off in a species-only tank, or one designed with their needs as priority.

HTH

goot
11/27/2002, 09:57 PM
Thank you Marai. I appreciate the reply. I guess I will have to re-think the whole matter now. This is why I love this place, real people with real knowledge.
Thanks,
Goot

Mairi
11/27/2002, 10:02 PM
No porblems, why not drop by www.seahorse.org for a look at current keepers' tanks, read the latest info etc. There are 2 excellent sticky threads in the Basic Seahorse Keeping forum you will be interested in - one is basic requirements, and also a list of suppliers of CB horses, and the other is a tankmates thread.

Hope to see you there!

goot
11/30/2002, 09:10 PM
Marai, Thanks for all the info. I have a spare 10 gal hex tank and stand that I have been wondering what to do with, so I am now considering setting up a seperate tanks for the horses alone. I also want to thank you forthe link. he info there is priceless.
I do have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind. There seems to be some conflicting theories out there and I was hoping that you might share some of yours with me.

The seahorses I am considering are dwarfs. I ahve a small whisper filter (5-10 gal) that I would like to use. Is charcoal ok for horses? Since the tank is under 20 gal, is a skimmer still necessary? And do you know the lighting requirments for a natural seahorse tree (soft coral Gorgonia)? Everything I read seems to push for plastic, but I do love the look of real coral. Also what about a air stone in the tank to help keep the oxygen up?
I also saw in one post that you were against live rock and sand in the tank, would it be ok not to use any rock and instead go with a more aquascaped look (sea fans, seahorse cactus, seahorse tree, sea lettuce)

Also if they were to spawn in the tank, would ANY filtration be too much for the fry, and how common is spawning with a pair anyways?

Thanks for your help and time in this matter.

Thanks,
Goot

Mairi
12/01/2002, 03:52 AM
No worries Goot,

The 10 gal will be fine for dwarfs, in fact you should consider keeping quite a few in there. At the seahorse.org Library there is a Stocking Guide, which will tell you the optimum number of dwarfs you can keep.

Charcoal is fine for horses, make sure the filter intake has a sponge fitted as the horses or their fry will be sucked up. A skimmer isn't really needed on a dwarf tank, as they are only eating BBS. We recommend it on larger horses' tanks due to the high protein levels in the mysis. Don't add airstones, small bubbles are not recommended in horse tanks. Use an open airline hidden behind some decorations, with a valve to regulate the flow.

I don't know about the requirements for keeping natural corals, but I suspect the flow they require would be greater than the horses could cope with. Remember that 3-5x volume is the highest the horses can have. The reason we don't recommend live sand and rock is to avoid hydroids, which multiply in plague proportions once you start feeding the tank BBS.

Dwarfs are absolute tarts, they will definately produce fry. They tend to have relatively small broods of 20 or so. The fry can be kept with the parents as long as your tankmates are only snails. They will cope with the same flow as their parents.

Remember dwarfs eat BBS, so you have to be prepared to decap and hatch daily hehe one of the fun things about them I guess!

goot
12/01/2002, 12:38 PM
thanks again for all your help. I have just one more question (at this time anyway). From my readings over at seahorse.org, I thought mysis was the recomended food source, and that BBS had no nutritional value to it at all. I even believe sombody compared it to candy for seahorses. Is this enough, or do I supplement with something else? Or is mysis not for dwarfs (or dwarves to use the fantasy spelling) . Again thanks for all your help. I have learned far more on these boards in the past week than I have in the last year of reading books and magazines.
Thanks,
Goot

Freya
12/01/2002, 06:13 PM
Hi Goot (hi Mairi!!! :D),

Goot the dwarfs are much too small to easily eat frozen mysis. It is *possible* to train them onto frozen mysis but this is a pretty rare event and would be extremely time consuming and a bit risky as there is no gaurantee they will learn to accept it. If you want to get dwarfs then you will have to be willing to constantly hatch bbs for them. Bbs is basically nutritionally void which is why you have to enrich it before feeding it to the dwarfs or any other seahorse fry. The best filter with dwarfs would be a simple sponge filter, these guys are TINY - usually about 1" - 1.5" in length from crown to the tip of their tail. All dead decorations are recommended, as Mairi said, these things will bring hydroids into the system. In a normal tank that isn't being fed bbs the hydroids are present but you will most likely never see them, once you start feeding a tank bbs heavily as you would in a dwarf seahorse tank the little bastards will multiply so quickly you wouldn't believe it. They sting dwarfs and can kill them, they also eat a large proportion of the bbs which means you have to hatch extra and your dwarfs are missing out on proper meals.

You could also keep a single pair of a medium sized species of seahorse, captive bred of course! Suitable species would be H. barbouri and H. kuda which are tropical, or H. whitei which are subtropical. The best source of these is SAMS and their CB horses are available now from MarineDepotLive. These are great little seahorses, I love them! :) They are all trained to eat frozen mysis when you get them and are really quite easy to keep. With these you can have the turn over of between 3 - 5 x tank volume per hour. You can also keep any non-stinging soft corals with them.

At seahorse.org you will find lots of photos of the different species, as well as links to members sites which will show you some of the tank set ups you can use, both for dwarfs and the larger species.

Have fun! :)

goot
12/01/2002, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the info. I will now begin studying the hatching technique of brine shrimp, maybe that whole child hood and sea monkies thing will prove to be valuable! Are there any prefered "powders" that you two prefer ? Or are they all about similar? About how long from the time of hatching are they considered to be too big for the dwarfs to eat?
Thanks,
Goot

Freya
12/02/2002, 05:26 AM
Hi Goot,

You will need to learn how to decap your brine cysts. Go to www.saseahorse.com for instructions. Decapping is a must with Dwarf Seahorses. Make sure you get the decapping and hatching down before you order the Dwarfs, you would be surprised how many people don't practise and then end up with a food crisis!

I think adult Dwarfs could eat brine up to a couple of weeks old, the fry will need the newly hatched Instar II though.

Again if you think all this bbs is going to be to be a bit much to start with maybe consider starting with a pair of medium sized species instead.

goot
12/02/2002, 09:56 AM
I found some very informative articles on that site. I even found one that you wrote that directed me to "Tracey's Page" which contains a lot of valuable info on decapping and hatching. I was alos wondering what you prefered to enrich the BS with? I have read of several differnet products. I think at this point I am leaning towards Kent Micro-vert, as it sounds less messy and I know the LFS carries it. What is your opinion on this?
Do they carry maufactured BS hatcheries? Everyone I see is made from pop bottles, which is good for my tight budget, but not very pleasing to the eye. One small concern about using the BS is I have heard that they smell. Is this true? Also I imagine that after the BS get too big to feed to the horses I would be able to feed them to my reef tank as a treat?
Once again I wish to thank both of you who have been so very helpful to me in this endevor.
Thanks,
Goot

seanic aquarium
12/02/2002, 03:29 PM
Hi Goot,
I supply some of Tracy's CB seahorses to the North American market. If you are in Pittsburgh, I think you are close to Williamsport. I just dropped of 15 captive bred horses to Saltwater Heaven. Just a warning the fish you have and seahorses do not mix. Your fish are far to aggressive, but if you are getting seahorses only buy CAPTIVE. It is better for you and them.
Good luck
Aaron

goot
12/02/2002, 04:12 PM
Thanks for the info aaron. I have decided, based on the wisdom obtained from the fine folks on these boards to do a seperate species tank for the horses. Williamsport is kind of a far drive , thanks though.


Here is an open question however to anyone that may care to answer it.

I am wondering about filtration. Which would be better to use, my 10 gal whisper hang on with charcoal filter, or one of those sponge filters that you run an air line to? Would the sponge, combined with an undergravel filter with a super low current powerhead be enough to keep the water from yellowing?

Thanks,
Goot

old ron
12/02/2002, 08:57 PM
Hello Goot, Well i guess we do not need to send you over to seahorse org. to answer your question. the hang on should be fine, if you use charcoal in it that should take care of yellow water, why do you think you are going to have yellow water?
The undergravel filter system is very rarely used for saltwater setups they have a lot of inherent problems so I would suggest you do not use it. If I may ask! how long have you have been into saltwater ? Most of us here on RC try very hard to set anyone in the right direction who asks a question. Seahorse.org is an excellent source of info perhaps even the best. when we cannot help we most likely will refer you to the org. keep posting:o :rolleyes: :)

goot
12/02/2002, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the input. The reason I was worried about the yellowing water was that I exerienced that in my reef tank, until I added another charcoal filter, which seems to have taken care of that problem. I don't want it to happen again.

On the topic of the undergravel, I never really saw the use for them in a reef tank either, and I don't use one in my reef tank either, but the more I read, I always sem to keep coming across refrences of people using undergravels and liking them, so I set one up in my spare tank that I WAS going to use as a quarentine tank for the reef tank, but apon learning more from this board and the seahorse.org as well, I decided that if I do get the horses, that this will be their new home instead. But I would love to hear your opinion on the undergravel filter as well and why you don't care for them. After all, nothiing is set in stone until I put the horses in.

And to further answer your questions, I have my reef (still in the beginnings of stocking stages, as far as corals) for almost a year now, however I just found this board within the last week, and I couldn't even tell you how happy I am for that. Until now I have been at the mercy of magaizine articles which seem to answer a lot, but leave you with even more questions, or the kid at the LFS, which the one person who apparently knows everything about fish never seems to be working:D As I stated in an earlier post, I have learned more from the fine folks on this board in the past week than I have in the past year.

Hope that answered your questions, and i thank you for them.

Also sorry about the long post, must be lonley tonigh:p
Thanks,
Goot

old ron
12/03/2002, 12:32 AM
Goot, Of course I do not want to tell you how to set up your tank but undergravel filters in salt tanks almost always become nutrient sinks. a lot of bio filtration can occure in the sandbed.
in a salt tank you would like to use aragonite or crushed coral etc
these substrates provide PH buffering,add calcium etc giving a balance to the system they tend to channel, create dead zones,
and plug up badly.when used with an undergravel filter the benthic fauna in a working sandbed will not survive well in this filtration system due to the inconsistent
flow and wash away effect of the water passing over the sand.
usually po4 & no3 will be a constant problem due to the above your arobic and anarobic bacteria will not colonize the bed evenly.
:D there! how is that for a long post? (And by the way I live just south of Pittsburgh) quarentine tanks should be bare bottom with a small hang on filter this allows for complete cleaning and disinfecting. yellow water is a symptom of a condition usually high DOC. be talking atcha.