Red Sea MAX - Microbubbles!!

[Zatko]

Ok, I did my research on nanos, and I found that the Red Sea Max, right now, is the sexiest overall aquarium that I like, with every possible feature I'd think about thrown into one package from the start.

I just set up the tank this evening with a 50/50 Oceanic/Instant Ocean salt mix, a half capful of Prime, and almost 1 tsp of Kent Marine SuperBuffer. I also have 60 lbs live sand.

One problem I noticed that plagued many was microbubbles.

Well, I hoped I'd be one of the few to avoid this problem, but alas, I have not.

Let me cut to the chase.

Possible problems:

The protein skimmer.

It is quite obvious when I turn it on that this is the culprit. I don't know if anything else is causing this, since it is a little cloudy still and I can't determine if there are any micro bubbles being spit out of the stock returns (also, anyone know the specs on those returns?).

So, solutions I've read up on:

-Tweaking/Replacing the air valve
-Cutting the black foam down to cm
-Removing white foam filter
-Securing the seal of the pump on the protein skimmer intake
-Replacing skimmer completely

Any help in this are would be awesome.

[TKByrnes]

If you just set the tank up I would give it a couple days for the skimmer to break in and also to let the tank settle down a little bit.

[Zatko]

I am definitely waiting on the tank to settle. I am also not even running the skimmer now due to the fact that there is no bio-load, and I don't like looking at microbubbles.

From my research, the choices of skimmers to replace the stock skimmer is the Tunze 9002 Nano skimmer, an AquaC Remora (not sure on type, or is it just the Remora?), or something with Urchin in the name.

Anyway, I was curious as to if anyone has any info on these 3 skimmers, and how well they work in place of the RSM's stock skimmer.

[Y-DesygnGuy]

Have you looked and or read the RSM thread? Lots of great information in that thread since it strictly talking about the RSM. Most of us have micro bubbles, give it some time the skimmer should break in and the bubbles will be less.

[new_world_disor]

what size is the tank ? 60lbs of sand sounds an awful lot :S

[lpsluver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11422424#post11422424 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zatko
The protein skimmer.

It is quite obvious when I turn it on that this is the culprit. I don't know if anything else is causing this, since it is a little cloudy still and I can't determine if there are any micro bubbles being spit out of the stock returns (also, anyone know the specs on those returns?).

So, solutions I've read up on:

-Tweaking/Replacing the air valve
-Cutting the black foam down to cm
-Removing white foam filter
-Securing the seal of the pump on the protein skimmer intake
-Replacing skimmer completely

Any help in this are would be awesome. I'm here to help. The microbubbles seem to be unavoidable at this point in time. There are two causes, the protein skimmer and the return pumps. The skimmer is a design flaw and hopefully RedSea will address it some day. The return pumps are water level issues. This is where trimming the filters or removing them helps. If you increase the flow and therefore the water level in the back compartment you raise the level of water in the return chamber and it is less likely to suck air. There is a mod discussed in the RSM owners thread that discusses how to lower the pumps to get rid of this problem. Someone there can help you figure out what page it is on.

As for the the replacement skimmers you mention here are my thoughts. If you have the money get the Tunze. It will fit in the existing compartment and will not require any additional modifications, just some fine spacial adjustment. The Remora will work but it is an HOB and will require you to remove the skimmer cover and move your tank away from the wall a bit. The urchin will not work because it is an in-sump skimmer and will not fit into the compartment.

[Zatko]

lpsluver - Thanks again! (I replied to your other post about 1 minute ago. You are on top of things.)

And I did a lot of looking around the RSM threads, they just happen to go over 50+ pages, and it seems to be anything-under-the-sun topics for the RSM, I just thought I'd specify a little more.

As for microbubbles from the returns, that doesn't seem to be the problem for me. After clearing the tank of all visible microbubbles on the tank walls, I let the tank settle overnight (with the skimmer off). When I checked it this morning, I didn't see any collection of microbubbles anywhere in the tank. Once I turned the protein skimmer on, they came in full force.

So I'm guessing trying to solve this problem would be easiest by just replacing the skimmer. So far, the Tunze 9002 seems to be the best bet, even if it is around $150. I want something that is going to work very well with no microbubble production, so this may be my next purchase. Maybe I can find a steal on eBay, or something.

As for the water level in the back, I notice that when the stock skimmer is in place, the water level is almost 1" from overflowing into the power supply box (on the far right side). It is stable, but a little too close for comfort for me. I know it's pretty much impossible to overflow into the supply, and I could see it overflowing the tank before going into the supply box, but will cutting the black foam drop the level at all in this area? Also, will it cause the level to drop in the other areas of the filter (i.e. the heater area and the return pump area)?

And yes, one more question: will removing the stock skimmer and replacing it with the Tunze 9002 cause any water level problems/changes like I mentioned just a up above?

new_world_disor - I work at a LFS, so buying 3 bags of the Arag-Alive from CaribSea at wholesale price is the equivalent to buying almost 1.5 bags at retail. I also have the desire for a blue spotted jawfish, so I need a deep sandbed. My old blue spot loved the 3+ inches in my old sandbed of my 94 gallon. Besides, it is ~2.5" off the bottom of the RSM, and I think it looks good, so that's all the matters. Heck, I may even add a 4th bag!

Thanks for all the info, guys! I'm trying to make this RSM very much my own, all while taking in information from all of you.

[lpsluver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11426413#post11426413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Zatko
As for the water level in the back, I notice that when the stock skimmer is in place, the water level is almost 1" from overflowing into the power supply box (on the far right side). It is stable, but a little too close for comfort for me. I know it's pretty much impossible to overflow into the supply, and I could see it overflowing the tank before going into the supply box, but will cutting the black foam drop the level at all in this area? Also, will it cause the level to drop in the other areas of the filter (i.e. the heater area and the return pump area)?

And yes, one more question: will removing the stock skimmer and replacing it with the Tunze 9002 cause any water level problems/changes like I mentioned just a up above?

You will not overflow your tank unless you overfill it. The only way I can see it happening is if you close the gate and pump out the back compartment but that is a real stretch. Since it is a closed system when you cut the foam in half or remove it, it allows more water into the other compartments (and will lower it in the prefilter area). I am not aware of any water level issues that are created by replacing the skimmer.

As far as tank water level goes, it seems to be close to the consensus amoungst us in the RSM owners thread that the best place to run the water level is just at or just below the lip in the display. The gate skims the surface the best at this level.

One thing to remember is that all (almost all) skimmers take time to break in and once they do the microbubble problems usually lessen or go away. Not many of us have gotten rid of them with the stock skimmer though.

[scottydo]

Where's the pics? - it didn't happen without them

[lpsluver]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11426543#post11426543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scottydo
Where's the pics? - it didn't happen without them ??? What didn't happen?

[Hodge]

I've had MB problems from the start with 2 stock skimmers (got a replacement after complaining). The second skimmer was no better than the first and ended up buying a Tunze (which has been in place for a week). Although the Tunze is not a perfect fit there are no MB, making it worth the money to me. I'm still trying to get the tunze dialed in, so far has not produced much, but probably just break in.

The stock skimmer configuration has design flaws. The circulation pumps pull water under the open bottom skimmer. Any restriction (black foam/white pad) will result in MB being pulled out of the skimmer.

Things which help(sort of):

Don't even worry about the skimmer until your cycle is over (it doesn't have anything to skim)

Be prepared for the skimmer to take time to break in when you start using it.

Throw the black foam block in the garbage when you're ready to use the skimmer and replace/mod the white pad with something disposable for primary filtration (must not impede flow).

Only run the skimmer at night when you can't see the bubbles. I'm sure running it 1/2 the time will effectively do the job unless the bio load is real high.

Only run one circulation pump (this seemed to work the best for me) I'm not sure what adverse effects of lower turnover is though.


If you decide on an after market skimmer, be prepared to either mod or remove the back lid. The tunze does not fit under the lid unless its sitting below the max depth recommended. It is a bit of a hassle to install the newer tunze skimmers as they have a magnetic attachment instead of an adjustable clamp bracket. This limits the installation to the glass wall beside the control panel, the control panel cover guard needs to be removed as well to make room for the magnet. The old style could be clamped on the heater divider glass which is a better location IMO. I may try to make a bracket to attach to the magnet and relocate it to the heater side.

[stephensturman]

run the skimmer to break it in or u will always have micro bubbles and just ignore them! i guess i got lucky because i never had alot of them now i dont have any!

[Zatko]

Hodge - I'm ready to buy a Tunze 9002 nano skimmer, so I'm browsing at the moment. I will probably wait until after the holidays since that's when things should be cheapest.

But let me get this straight the newer models of the Tunze 9002 have the magnetic clip? And the older ones with the bracket? And if I can get the bracket, go with that one?

I'm curious as to if Tunze has any clips in old inventory stock. Probably not, but I could hassle a customer representative for a minute or two.

[JB23]

Folks;
Not sure, but maybe I'm Nuts! My RSM, now set-up for 6 weeks now, has naturally begun adjusting, & the dreaded MB from the skimmer are almost down to Zero. I really feel to many of us expect almost Instant Results
& Gratification! Relax, have a cold one, & let the SYSTEM work!
My only mod-I cut the black filter in half. Take Care, & Happy Holidays to Everyone!
Jerry

[TikiDan]

my experience shows ALL skimmers have MBs before they break in!!!
You could spend thousands of dollars on great skimmers and while it breaks in, you will get MICRO BUBBLES!

leave the skimmer on 24/7 and let it do its thing.

[Zatko]

TikiDan - I've slapped a CPR's RPS 2000 on my old 92 gallon reef, and within 2 days, I was getting a nice, dark green skimmate. Not once, not even when I started the sucker up, did I ever get any microbubbles.

I'm not sure, but maybe since it's recirculating skimmer, it may be less prone to produce microbubbles. Maybe it has to deal with the pump for the skimmer being submerged or not.

Also, another reason I'm so anti-MB is that I'm not looking to create anaerobic bacteria anywhere in the tank (that I can help). And while my cured live rock will be proliferating bacteria, microbubbles getting trapped within/under the rock is a bad thing, especially with any kind of sponges.

Just my opinion. Also, I know Red Sea skimmers kind of suck, so I don't mind replacing it. I will give it a try though, I just know if I try and keep it, I'm looking at doing some mods. And when I mod, it seems like a never-ending job.

[JB23]

After 7/half weeks, MB now down to nearly zero! BE PATIENT FOLKS!
Hope all have a Terrific 08'.
Jerry