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clmarking
11/17/2007, 01:08 AM
I've been sneaking on and reading the club's forum for a while now and for some unknown reason felt guilty and thought I should introduce myself (could be the beer talking). After 10 years out of the hobby I'm getting a reef tank started again. A lot has changed in reefing and a lot hasn't. But it was really fun to bump into a local club (I'm in Paradise) and read the banter. I'm starting a 120 gallon with sump/refug to keep mostly softies and eventually sps.

My question relates to DSBs. When I broke down my last tank it was becoming all the rage, now though I see a lot of debate on Reef Central about this topic. How have you all set up your display tank?

Later on I will have more questions about plumbing after the tank and stand are completed and moved in the house.

Thanks,
Chris (I know, there already is a Chris in the club)

iairj84
11/17/2007, 02:21 AM
I'm in the same boat you are trying to figure out how to go about the sand bed. in my situation I've chosen to go with a smaller sand bed primarily because I'm using a much smaller tank 20 gallon with 10 gallon fuge so it wouldn't make much sense to have a 4'' bed in there. I will probably end up having a DSB in the fuge though however just to give the tank some extra filtering... It can't hurt.


And welcome to the forums. I have yet to make it to a club meeting yet so I'm hesitant to say welcome to the club but welcome no less!

kinghokus420
11/17/2007, 11:32 AM
welcome chris,
i look forward to seeing you at the next meeting. Imo dsb's are overrated. the risks and loss of tank space far outweigh the advantages. they supposedly dont start to work until they reach that magic 4" number. on a 22" tall tank youre now stuck with 18" to work with. thats not alot. and if you sandbed goes sideways then youre whole tank can be poisioned with the nasties. not to mention the nutrient sink it can become. these are just a couple reasons i switched to a ssb. im only at about 2 inches now just for looks mostly. i like to get my stick in there and stir it up that way i know for sure no detritus is trapped. if you want a dsb, i have done alot of looking into a remote dsb in a 5 gallon bucket. that way if it does go wonky, you can shut it down and disconnect it from the system without disturbing anything. im 100% sure people have used dsb's with no issues. im one of them, i just didnt like the Ticking timebomb thought thats all. plus a ssb is way cheaper! arag sand is 1.00 - 1.25 a POUND. ouch.

foodstamp
11/17/2007, 11:36 AM
here is how i went with mine, i will be adding about 2"-3" more to the dsb in the fuge

as you can see one side is a lil lower then the other but this is just cuz i just got the rock for that side and i am waiting for 25 pounds of sand in the mail....
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/phd5000/dsb2.jpg

for the most part i just want to keep it even with the wood trim on the bottem of the tank i think that it looks the best... i really dont like the look of bare bottem or a huge dsb in the DT
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/phd5000/dsb.jpg

fuge
i got a fuge that is 16" tall and i will have a 6" dsb once it is finished leaven 10" for microalgee ( cheato ) i might end up with 8" & 8" we well see
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/phd5000/dsb1.jpg

from research that i have done ( dsb crashing,ect) you might want to think about "remote dsb" 5 gallon buckets full of sand that way you can change them out easyly if needed if you have the room i didnot on this tank and i can cut the water off to the fuge at any time and fix what ever is needed.......

good luck......

btw what pharmacy do you work at? i might know you i have delivered bergan, mckesson, cardinal phamacidals for 5yrs in the north state.... ;)

foodstamp
11/17/2007, 11:43 AM
[i] arag sand is 1.00 - 1.25 a POUND. ouch. [/B]

just a fyi rob at underwater pardise in marysville has used dry arag sand for .50 cents a pound..... he only has about 100 pounds but it is cheap :D

clmarking
11/17/2007, 12:37 PM
A remote DSB makes a lot of sense. But that was part of my next line of questions on plumbing a tank. How would you set up the 5 gallon bucket with regards to pumps and draining? I'm planing on a sump for the skimmer, heater, etc, but then if you add the 5 gallon bucket away form the sump I start worrying about overflow issues. By overflow, I mean onto my floor.

Foodstamp, I work at Enloe and moonlight to other local pharmacies as a favor.

iairj84
11/17/2007, 12:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11201917#post11201917 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by foodstamp
just a fyi rob at underwater pardise in marysville has used dry arag sand for .50 cents a pound..... he only has about 100 pounds but it is cheap :D

Man that's a killer deal! not quite worth the trip just for that but man.

kinghokus420
11/17/2007, 12:59 PM
from what i read, an RDSB can be a salt bucket with the rubber seal on the lid with an inlet and outlet. bulkheads are quite spendy so i would use swamp cooler drain parts. not as beefy as bulkheads but they work fine and are only 2$ a whack. and are threaded for female hose end fittings. for the flow youre on your own. you could use a slow flow pump or just add another tee to your return. im partial to another small pump if you have the power oulets for it.

Twisted
11/17/2007, 01:04 PM
clmarking I have not done anything with the DSB, but we had a conversation about this in a Redding club meeting at one point. From what I understand the 5 gallon bucket would be about two thirds full, you would be plumbing in one side at the top, and plumbing out the other side at the top, so it is just a constant run through. The bucket has a lid on it, so it is sealed, no light going into it.
So I would imagine if you set this between your overflow and you sump it would run like an inline filter.
From what I understand all it will do is lower nitrates, which unless you have a heavy fish load cheato should do that.
We actually set one up at The Deep in Redding on the fish only display system because the nitrates ran over 80 constantly. With a small like 4 foot long, 18 inch wide, and maybe 6 inch deep sand bed in line to the sump the nitrates were cut in half, on a bad day we are around 40.

Guess I should add that the system it's on is like 750 gallons I think. So while 40 seems high still, on a system with that many fish, it ain't bad.

foodstamp
11/17/2007, 02:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11202171#post11202171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clmarking

Foodstamp, I work at Enloe and moonlight to other local pharmacies as a favor.

so you know patti then :) she's a nice lady i used to deliver all enloe's drug's tell her adam said hi.

i allso agree with Twisted on the plumbing part and for a small sand bed that the deep is using it works very well.

hydroponic stores carry like bulk head fittings as well there slip on hose fittings not pvc but could work as well and there $3-$5 each they are made for bucket's unlike bulk heads
i would run 1 input & 2 outputs of the same size that way if something gets stuck in one you have that back up....

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11202171#post11202171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by iairj84
Man that's a killer deal! not quite worth the trip just for that but man.

i drive to yuba/marysville 5 days a week so any time you wanna ride or me to pick something up just pm me....

im in need of 50 pounds so if someone wanted to go in half on the 100 with me i can pick it up monday.

boviac
11/17/2007, 04:12 PM
small world.

Welcom Chris from Chris! :D

I agree with KingHokus about the DSB. Remote is best way to go if you want one so if/when things go bad you can change out without disturbing other things.

clmarking
11/17/2007, 04:42 PM
Thanks for all the info. I like the 5 gallon bucket idea. Low overhead so if I don't like it I won't feel guilty about the money spent.

Foodstamp- I'll tell Patti that you said hi. And I agree that she is great.

boviac
11/17/2007, 05:00 PM
One thing is I would imagine you would want a very low flow through the bucket to maximize infiltration and contact time.

foodstamp: you've got PM!

Underwaterparadise
11/17/2007, 06:37 PM
Take a 10g tank drilled for a 3/4-1" bulkhead at the top for a drain. Fill it to the top with sand and have a drain from the tank drain into the DSB at a very slow rate.

I have a friend with a 300g tank Bare Bottom mostly SPS with a ton of fish. He could never keep his Nitrates below 30-50, since adding the DSB they are pretty much undetectable.

A true DSB must be at least 5"+ deep anything less then that and the nitrification process is very minimal. I like about a 2-3" sand bed in the display but that is for looks and should be cleaned with a gravel vac when doing WG's.

I change my water so often I really have no need for a DSB as Nitrates are not an issue. My fish system here in the store is 600gallons and my Nitrates measure 5-10 on a bad week ;)

BTW WELCOME TO THE CROWD!!!

Peace
Rob

sparkys24
11/17/2007, 11:18 PM
I knew your first name in combination with your user name, coupled with the pharmacy comments sounded familiar!

I am an dayshift RN up on DCU. ;)



Welcome!