CB Sea Dragons

[Mad Scientist]

WOW! I'v have wanted a sea dragon as long as I can remember, nice thick weed bed, reliable chiller........soon......


http://www.oceanrider.com/comingsoon.asp

[Will]

do remember, though, that they'll be VERY expensive. i can't wait for them to be available either, but i think i'll let others gain experience first. also remember that "coming soon" could mean "coming in a few years.." i'm sort of disappointed that they'll be available. i'm sure many will be lost because of so many inexperienced people wanting to give them a try.. mad scientist, you're on the right track with the weed bed and chiller, but also add to that list a HUGE tank. weedies are migratory..
fourhand2

[SeaNemesis]

These Seadragons will not be available to just anyone because of that reason. They need specific set-ups and the people that want them will have to be very experienced.

[DgenR8]

Originally posted by SeaNemesis
These Seadragons will not be available to just anyone because of that reason. They need specific set-ups and the people that want them will have to be very experienced.

I hope this is the case. I'm not experienced with these animals, not even seahorses........ yet, but the limited reading I have done tells me that the dragons are not going to be easy to keep, even for the folks that have a good idea of what they're doing.
I almost hope that they don't become commercially available, as they will inevitably wind up in the wrong hands, at least sometimes and the result will not be pretty in those cases.
I'd like to believe in people's responsibility to the animals they buy, but I have seen way too much to have any confidence in that.
I know that this forum will save a good number of these animals by discouraging some incapable keepers from buying them, and teaching others to be able to take on the challenge successfully.
:D

[IllusionaryDreams]

I believe they will be difficult to raise as most seahorses. But I also have a lot of faith in Ocean Rider that they are probably making these hybrids so they will be a little more suitable for the home aquarists. Just as they have done with all of their animals. I'm not downplaying the difficulty at all in raising these fine species, only commenting on how I feel ocean rider will take every effort to have these beauties suitable and have survivability (if that's a word)

Greg

[Will]

with the correct type of setup, i doubt they'll be incredibly difficult to care for. the setup, however, is what most people will not want, well... set up. remember a few years ago when seahorses were impossible to keep except by extremely experienced aquarists (and even they had some trouble)? well, it'll probably be the same way with the dragons. i think for awhile, we as hobbiests should leave the dragons to really experienced people such as tracy and david warland, pete giwojna, amanda vincent.. the top guys in seahorses keeping.
fourhand2

[Mad Scientist]

Well.....

We all know there are alot of people out there keeping tangs in 30 gal tanks, seahorses in 10' deep system, etc. These are the same types who buy Golden Retriver dogs and keep them in a cage all day.

But, there are also a lot of good hobbyists out there who recognize how lucky we are to have these animals in our lives.

I know there are alot of people like me out there willing to spend the time and money into providing dragons with the right environment. We all know how even in the past 5 or 10 years we were told how people would never be able to keep seahorses, never propagate corals, never breed marine fish, etc. Alot has changed. Natural reef keeping has allowed to keep water quality very high along with skimmers and refugiums.

Big tank, no problem either, tanks 200-400gal are really not that rare these days.

IMO the keys to keeping so called impossible species are pretty straight forward: first you need a healthy animal to start with, next you need the ideal set-up (every detail from water quality to tank mates), and lastly the right food.

I'm so excited about these dragons, even if it's a few years.......unreal

I wonder if OR is working with pipefish too (I know Tracy Warland down in AU is).

[Mairi]

Hi MS, add an extra zero to your tank size there. You're looking at at least 1000gal for a dragon, if not more.

[DgenR8]

Originally posted by Mairi
Hi MS, add an extra zero to your tank size there. You're looking at at least 1000gal for a dragon, if not more.

Mairi,
I'm not going to argue with you, as I have no experience with these animals, but I'd like to know why you recommend a MINIMUM of a 1,000 gal tank for them?
I would think that feeding would be next to impossible in a tank that size.
Aren't these animals closely related to seahorses?

[Mad Scientist]

Mairi,

I know you know alot about horses and dragons, but, you really think 1,000gal plus (did you mean liters) ?

I've never kept dragons myself, but, I know a number of people who have cared for weedy dragons at public aquariums (NEA), and they where usually working in tanks in the couple of a hundred gallon range max.

[Mairi]

DgenR8, this is precisely one of the difficulties in keeping these fish. Such a large system has to be constantly supplied with small crustaceans to allow the dragon access to ample food. And they eat a lot! Do you realise how huge these fellows get?

They are a member of the SYgnathid family, but of the species phycodurus. So they are a sort of cousin, much like the pipefish and pipehorses.

MS, I replied to you onthis thread (http://www.seahorse.org/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002485) at www.seahorse.org.

I strongly urge you to do a search on the web for the care requirements of the weedy seadragon. As I said in my thread over at the org, who knows how long the dragons on public display are living for? I know of a supplier who is constantly re-supplying his customers.

Another great source of info is Tracy Warland (http://www.saseahorse.com.au) . She currently has 5 dragons and I'm sure she will be happy to describe their current requirements for you.

HTH!

[Mad Scientist]

Thanks, Mairi

Hope I haven't come off as too much of a jerk...I know you Aussies are sensitive about your dragons, and rightly so....I also assumed that CB dragons would be feed frozen food.

[DgenR8]

Forgive me, I still can't grasp the need for such a huge tank. How big do they get?

[Mad Scientist]

I've heard weedies can go 10"-12" easy in captivity, althought the ones I've seen were more like 6-8". I guess they like to swim as well. Also, since most WC dragons aren't going to take frozen you need to have a pretty serious pod population.

Of course, with CB dragons, they'll take frozen (hopefully) and now that lots of people (like me) raise pods, it's not so much a problem.

I'm really hoping the CB ones are alot easier to take care of. I know I could do 200-300gals, maybe even 400-500, but 2,500- no way.

I'm dreaming about a small room with the dragon tank, big time AC running (in a small room a single uniot can really drop the temp) in addition to a reliable chiller. A couple of nice 20K mh lights to grow the macro.......

[DgenR8]

Originally posted by Mad Scientist
I'm dreaming about a small room with the dragon tank, big time AC running (in a small room a single uniot can really drop the temp) in addition to a reliable chiller. A couple of nice 20K mh lights to grow the macro.......

How low a temperature are you aiming for there?

[Mad Scientist]

I'm sure OR will release a specific list of parameters if/when their specific type of dragons are avaiable, but, from what I've heard low 70s, upper 60s - not too bad.

I know a few tricks like running the tubing from a closed loop through a "college" sized frig (drill holes etc) = poor man's chiller.

Cool pics:http://home.mira.net/~areadman/dragon.htm

[Mairi]

Hi guys, here (http://www.seahorse.org/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000128) is the thread I was searching for. Lots of info as well as the email addy for Pang, a guy here who raises the dragons for the public aquaria.

And did you guys know the ribboned seadragon is tropical?? That looks a little more hopeful as well, if someone will develop it.

HTH! (wish I was in a dragon tank, it's 41C here *whew*)

[Mad Scientist]

For anyone whose following this discussion, but, is not on org, check this thread out (public aquarium keeping a dragon in a 120gal for 5 years):

http://www.seahorse.org/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002506#000001

[Tom Hulse]

We toured the Seattle Aquarium this weekend and the they had 3 very large, very beautiful leafy sea dragons. I'm in full agreement now that you can't appreciate the necessary tank size for these until you actually see some full grown ones in person. They're huge! The 2 adults were over 13" long, 7" wide, & 8" tall. They're not skinny like a seahorse. With their appendages they take up the whole of those measurements like a giant shoebox. They don't turn on a dime, it's like watching a giant zepplin slowly bank into a corner. If you were to put one of these into a 120 gal it would not be able to turn around. I'm not exaggerating, it would literally be stuck facing one direction.

Seattle Aq had them in a cylinder tank roughly 6' diam by 4.5' tall, in the ballpark of just under 1000 gal. The dragons basically just stay in the middle and hover. Last week I was conviced 2 or 300 gal would be plenty to keep them alive. Now I think 1000 is painfully too small, like keeping a clown fish in a 1 gal. Sure you could do it, but if you cared about the animal at all you would never do it them.

They said they had to give the Weedies back to Dallas because they swam faster and farther; they just weren't happy in this size tank. They were also unable to ween them off of live foods like they were able to do with the leafies.

Does anyone know how big the Dallas Aq tanks for leafies and weedies are? Thanks

- Tom