Plumbing Question

[benjabba]

Hi guys how is everybody. I have been out of town on and off for the last few months but now it seems I will be at home for a while and it is time to set up my tank again. My question is about plumbing. Originally when it was setup Josh and I soft plumbed the first few inches from the bulkheads. In the original design the sump was to be in the stand. Now I plan to put the sump behind the tank in the garage. This is something I have been wanting to do for a long time so I could have more space to set things up. So I guess my question is, is there a benefit to using the soft plumbing from the bulkheads and then connecting that to the hard plumbing that will run down to the sump? I think I would prefer to hard plumb the whole thing but I need some advice on this. Off the tank, 110 gallon RR with 2 overflows, I will combine both the drain and return lines with T's and then run the plumbing through the wall to the sump. I hope to do this soon I am just trying to accumulate all of the parts I need for the plumbing. Two trips to Lowe's already and I still need to go back. Man they really need to organize their fittings much better. It is impossible to find anything there. Anyways before I get started on this project I am hoping you guys can offer some sage advice.

Thanks

[jmait769]

benjabba - I used both on mine. A small section of soft from the HOB overflow down to the sump then hard PVC from there. Also, I used it on my output from the pump for the closed loop. I used the soft because you can make a gentle turn and to reduce some fittings. I think the limiting issue with soft is you can only get two sizes at Lowes and it still is pretty stiff so you can not make radical turns with it. Good luck with your project and post pics!!:)

Jay

[killingseed]

soft plumbed i asume some type of flex tubing or spa tubing?
you get the most flow out of a straight run over one with bends. one thing to rememder it the more bends the slower the water will travel. so each time you add a 45 or 90 you will slow it down that much more. so try to keep it simple and a few bends as posible. the smoother the ride for the water the quicker it will flow.

[benjabba]

I wish I could draw a picture and try to explain it better to you guys. The way I see it I dont know how I can get it done with less then 4 90 degree turns or maybe 3 90 degree turns and 1 45 degree turn for both the drain and the return. Anybody know a better place to buy parts then Lowes?

Ben

[killingseed]

some of those rounded or soft bend 90 for pools and spa should be better then a normal 90.

depanding on placement of tanks wall and sump could be done with a min of 2 x 45's

[killingseed]

this would be a pic of the bare min.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n238/killingseed/45o.jpg

[benjabba]

The relation of the tank to the sump is correct in your diagram. The only issue is I have two drain lines and two return lines. So at some point they have to come together. I do like the idea of using the 45 degree elbow going into the sump and coming up from pump. That would eliminate some angles. So would you suggest I "T" the drain and return lines under the tank and then use the 45 degree elbows to angle the plumbing like you have in your diagram? Thanks for your help.

Ben

[killingseed]

ya, i dont see why you cant "t" it and run down like that. you might want to up the size of the pipes at and after the "t".

did you think about bubble traping the drain in the sump?
"h" setup can help there. i know jay has some as examples on his drain. sure helps cut down the bubbles

[killingseed]

hope you dont mind jay posting one of your pictures
if any thing, i'm sure he wouldnt mind sharing the details

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/jmait769/FishStand04.jpg

[jmait769]

hope you dont mind jay posting one of your pictures
Nope!!:) You guys have seen so many pics it will be anti-climatic when you see it in person at the meeting!!:lol:

Hee hee! That was my first sump. Live and learn!! You can see the 1” spa flex that makes a slight sweep sort of in an S shape coming down from the duel overflow. They now combine in to 1¼“ hard pipe on the right upper side.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/jmait769/Sump03.jpg

I’m not sure of the distance and angles of your drain but really either type of tubing would work. Also, Ben, how much return flow will you have? I’m using a QO 3000 with 4ft of head and it is putting out about 550 GPH. I’m using 1¼” PVC that splits behind the tank with a T and then up and over with 1” PVC.

Jay

[benjabba]

Nice looking sump. I have tenative plans to use the spa flex at the very top of the return and drain lines. The rest of the plumbing will probably be hard. I have a Reeflo Dart that will put out about 3600 GPH. I am not sure what the head loss will be yet because I am still undecided on exactly how I will do all of the plumbing. The good news is after my 1st trip to Home Depot and 3rd trip to Lowes I think I have everything I need! (Yea Right) If everything goes well I should have the tank plumbed this weekend. That is if I can make my mind up on how to do it. It will probably be a long Saturday that will require lots of cold beer.

Ben

[killingseed]

maybe you can take some picture of the progress , that would be great!

lots of cold beer, your not making pvc art, heheh

[benjabba]

I will be starting on the project this afternoon. I will take some pics and maybe start a tank build thread here. Oh yea and lots of cold beer. It helps with coordination. :)

Ben

[benjabba]

Anybody good at calcualating head loss? I wanna make sure the Dart will be ok with the plumbing the way I have it setup. I think it will but I just want to double check. On the Drain lines I have them meeting at a "T". So that gives me one 90 degree angle on each overflow. To make everything work right when I go through the wall I will need two more 90 degree angles to make in into the sump. This will give me a total of four 90 degree angles for the drain.

On the return I have the same setup on top with both lines coming into a "T". From the pump I will also have another 90 degree angle. This will give me a total of three 90 degree angles on the return. Any help is appreciated.

Ben

[killingseed]

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

[benjabba]

I have used the calculater but I am just not totally sure I put everything in right. I am coming up with 11 feet at 944 GPH.

Ben

[jmait769]

This is what I came up with:

Vertical length in feet: 4
Horizontal length in feet: 11
Pipe diameter in inches: 1
Choose your pump: Sequence 3600SEQ12
Number of 90 degree elbows: 4
Number of 45 degree elbows: 2
Number of ball valves: 1
Number of union couplings: 1
Number of pipe exits: 2
Number of pipe entrances: 1

Total losses are 10.66 feet of head pressure, or 4.61 PSI. with a flow rate of 1120 GPH.

Using 1.25 tubing.

Vertical length in feet: 4
Horizontal length in feet: 11
Pipe diameter in inches: 1.25
Choose your pump: Sequence 3600SEQ12
Number of 90 degree elbows: 4
Number of 45 degree elbows: 2
Number of ball valves: 1
Number of union couplings: 1
Number of pipe exits: 2
Number of pipe entrances: 1

Total losses are 8.99 feet of head pressure, or 3.88 PSI. with a flow rate of 1771 GPH.

I think I selected the correct pump from the drop down menu. You can play around with the numbers and that is how I came up with what I used. Also, if you use a union coupling make sure you get the next size larger than adapt it to your hose size. For example if you are using 1.25” tubing, get a 1 ½” union and the buy two reducers/adaptors to plug the tubing in.

HTH

Jay

[benjabba]

Well I am going to try to post some pics of the plumbing. Let me know what you guys think. And sorry in advance for the poor pictures. The camara is not that great.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/137397mini-Left_Side.jpg http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/137397mini-Right_Side.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/137397mini-Plumbing_into_wall.jpg http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/137397mini-Return_to_tank.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/137397mini-Drain_to_sump.jpg http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/137397mini-Full_Sump_View.jpg

So what do you think? I still have a few things to finish and then glue it all together. Just waiting for a few opinions before I do that.

Ben

[killingseed]

nice

[killingseed]

http://www.reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/123477pi.jpg

[benjabba]

Not a bad idea, let me see if I can make it happen. I am def. not a plumber by trade. :)

[Salty Sam]

Looks really good Ben.

[benjabba]

I am going to take killinseed's idea and try to angle the last span of the drain line into the sump to speed up the flow a bit. Also, what do you guys think about one more valve on the line that comes through the wall for the return line. I was thinking this may be a good idea in case I ever need to totally disconnect the sump from the tank and the pump. I already have valves before and after the pump but if I were to go to a bigger sump or something like that it would be difficult to plumb since the valve is so low to the ground. With the valve on top like the on the drain line it seems like it could be eaisier.

[killingseed]

unions you might want to add a couple so you can take it a part in differnt location. the threaded unions would work the best if any thing you can reuse them down the road. and its always best to use the next size up on value's and unions.

[benjabba]

Well I finally had time to finish the plumbing this weekend. I was able to get the return pipe angled down like killingseeds suggestion. Tomorrow I go leak hunting. :)

Ben

[benjabba]

I am happy to report the tank is full of water now. I will be leak testing it for a few days and playing with water levels and stuff. So far it looks pretty good. A couple of small leaks and that is it. I can not believe the flow I am getting inside the tank from the return pump. I guess once I am done leak testing I will start a tank build thread and get some pics up.

Ben

[killingseed]

that sounds great

[zed915]

Father in law...

Also converted their wet bar into a tank placement with drainage for water changes. I trying to talkhim into putting in sump.


Plumber removed the sink, flatten the area with stained wood to match, and routed the plumbing.


http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa205/zed915/WetBar.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa205/zed915/Drainage.jpg

[reeftexas]

zed915-good idea,was it yours or the father inlaws? Either way looks like it will work.See ya later Eddie... Jeff

[zed915]

My father-n-law's... They had to reinforce the wet bar, and level the outer portion since the sink was removed. I wish we had additional pics, but the camera broke during the photo session... :(