Freshwater tanks...cost

[sir_dudeguy]

I've been thinking of setting up a freshwater tank again, mainly so i can get my favorite fresh water fish...elephant nose. I used to have one a long time ago that did ok, but that was before i even knew about water levels and whatnot, so obviously he died after a while.

Anyways, i'm just wondering what the average price stuff is for freshwater...i'm thinking of doing a 55g tank since i've already got the stand (need a tank though...a cheap one :) ).

What filters would you use? I know i can use play sand, thats what i used to use and it worked great, specially for my kuhli loaches which always burrowed, and that stuff was really really cheap.

What else as far as equipment? Basically just a filter and maybe a small powerhead, right?

[EvilE]

for a 55 I would use either a AC 110 or a emperor 400 for filtration. My Black Rhom is a very messy eater, so I actually use both of those!!

[Doglover_50]

agreed.

Mike, not sure if you'd be interested, BUT....once I get my 120g fully set up (yes--it's still not set up--bulkhead issues), then I'll empty all my salt reef and critters from my current 75g tank, which I bought to upsize my 46g fresh tank to....then I'll have my 46 gallon up for sale. This is a fully setup freshwater tank--black stand glass top, basic lighting that came with, blue gravel, etc... The kinda you'd get at petsmart. PM me if intersted. .

[Alto]

Lighting isnt really an issue, its really just there to see the fish, unless you want live plants so an inexpensive light fixture with 1-2 bulbs is all you need. For filtration I am a big fan of the Marineland emperor filtration series. IMO aquaclear hang on filters dont do a very good job of biological filtration. They rely on the same foam block for both biological and mechanical filtration. The Penguin and Emperor series from marineland have bio-wheels that act as mini-wet/dry filters, so you can clean the mechanical media as often as you like. The more often you clean your mechanical media the less nitrate build up you have. For "community" tanks aim for 3-4x's an hour turn over through your filter, and for larger aggressive tanks like cichlids, I would shoot for 10-12x's turn over.

[sir_dudeguy]

Thanks for the input so far! ;) I dont plan to do live plants...at least not to start. I can always upgrade to a bit better light later on. And i'm torn between getting a cichlid tank, or going w/my original plan...elephant nose and then build around that.

[Alto]

You could probably go with the best of both worlds. Smaller less aggressive cichlids would make adequate tank mates for the elephant nose as long as it has hiding places that the cichlids cant get to. PVC pipe, or caves/decorations will make them feel right at home. Severums, angels, discus, rams, rainbow cichlids, or jack dempseys would work probably. Just stay away from the larger or more aggressive ones, like jaguar, red devil, oscar, fire mouths, convicts etc. With cichlids come personality and so any of the above mentioned "compatible" species could easily have individuals that wont mesh well so just keep that in mind

[Doglover_50]

actually, I don't think the aquaclears rely on the foam for biological--they have ceramic little tubes or something---it's foam, then little ringie things, then carbon. You may be right overall alto, but just wanted to mention that 3rd media which is the AQ bio filter.

[Kentanner11]

the aqua clear, top down is (atleast what I have used for a very sucessful FW) mixed media of carbon/ammo lock in a mesh bag that provides wet/dry filtration cause it was soooo full it was sticking out of the water, then carbon bag, then the foam.

[Doglover_50]

How exactly do you get wet dry filtration of the bio material in this fashion in an aquaclear? That is, do you have enough captitating water to create the wet dry? If I did that, I'd have wet wet (what's under the water level) and dry dry-the part of it that stays above the water level!?

[sir_dudeguy]

like doglover says...the AC filters use the ceramic stuff just like any other HOB or canister... I dont know of any regularly used/popular filters that rely on just the foam for bio-filtration.

[Alto]

Maybe they have redesigned the AC filters. Its been years since I used them for anything. When I was considering them they only came with a carbon bag and a big foam block. If they are coming with the ceramic rings then they are at least moving in the right direction.

I still like the true wet/dry action of the emperor/penguin series best.

[Kentanner11]

Hey why not just us a canister?

[pupfish]

Power outages. Cannister's are great for vacuuming debris, but if you leave one running 24/7 and the power kicks out for a few hours while you're asleep or at work and then kicks your now-non-oxygenated-totally-enclosed-completely-anaerobically-fortified-sulfide-hydrogen-gas-producing-machine back on: bye-bye fishies. Especially true if a planted tank may be planned at some point.

Two AquaClear 500's one on @ side. Take two 300 or 500 foam blocks, core out the centers and put them over the tips of your intake tube (increased filtration, catch large debris, less mess in main chamber). Inside chambers from top to bottom: ceramic thingies (prefer noodles myself), carbon or media of choice (i.e. purigen, phosban, polyfilter, fluval peat nuggets, whatever best suits your needs - can do 1 in one filter and 1 in the other.) Voila!

With the ceramics, usually they sit high enough in the filter chamber that around a third gets higher oxygen exposure to being dampened (there is still water flow around them and they are somewhat absorbent - think of those rocks you see in the Salt River's "white watery parts" when you go tubing. They're exposed but water is still circulating over and about. Of course the trick is to NOT put the lid on the filter. Pile it and leave open.) The sponges are fantastic. They hold debris great and after you give 'em the proper sqeezings in dechlored water, they should have that wonderful earthy "lake smell" - and I mean a clean lake. Well-run, they'll be loaded with aerobic bacteria, hence adding one onto the intake tube. I've tried many of the others, AquaClears' are hands-down the best. You can put anything in them, easy to clean - I even heard of reefers DIY'ing the 110's into HOB refugiums! (Actually would be pretty easy project.) Also, if you do have to medicate, removing carbon while still running the filters is a snap. Try that with other HOB powerfilters.

The only downside is self start-up. If the power is out for more than 20-30 minutes and the filters aren't clean it may not be able to pull water. The worst thing is that your motor would burn out, but in over 20 years of using these I've never had that happen. Right now I'm running 7 of them.

[Kentanner11]

why not do a sump? You would still get the beni's from it as you would saltwater.

[Doglover_50]

I'm not sure a sump is worth the hassle, risk of flood, effort, etc... unlike a reef tank just for typical FW fish setup. They are generally so straightforward to keep with basic filtration like good HOB filters and some powerheads for water movement.

I'm going on 2 1/2 years with my loaches just with HOB filters and pretty heavy bioload. Knock on wood, very straightforwrd.

[sir_dudeguy]

Hey why not just us a canister?

Basically for all the reasons pupfish said haha. I've had 2 canisters, (different brands), and sold 2 canisters...didnt like them. For a lazy person like me, it was always too much work to disconnect all the hoses, pry open the lid (that alone took me like 10 minutes!) wash everything out, fill it back up and put it back on... By the end of it, i always spilled water.

I've had HOB's before...people dont give them enough credit IMO. They're great for freshwater..saltwater, maybe not as good. But as others are saying, freshwater is pretty straight forward. You can seriously overstock freshwater tanks and not have a problem.

why not do a sump? You would still get the beni's from it as you would saltwater.

IMO there wouldnt be any benefits....not even added water volume. This will be close to a 55g tank, give or take, so its already got plenty of water in it to keep stable, specially for a freshwater. I've never used a sump for freshwater, and dont plan to basically for the reasons doglover posted. That and i absolutely hate the sump on my 40b reef to begin with...i stopped running it finally about a month ago.

Plus..what would i put in a sump for freshwater??? There's no skimmer, i could maybe do bioballs, but if i do HOB there's no reason to use those...Most i can do is put my heater in there, but i've got no problems hiding a heater in the back of a tank.

This is basically all just to rejog my memory on freshwater lol...i havent done it for a few years now, but i'd done it for about 3 years before that, so i know all the basics, and this thread is helping me remember all the other stuff :)

[pupfish]

You could do an in-tank refugium - oh, wait, that's a freshwater planted tank.

People have tried to do variations of the sump concept for FW, but it doesn't seem to be worth it when just hooking up a python and doing a partial water change is so much easier (relative to reefwater tinkering). Even with a planted acidic water aquarium. Also if you keep your FW tank at pH of 7 or less, the effects of ammonia aren't going to be as devastating to land-locked aquatic organisms as it would be to reef one's.

Healthy reefs have a stable pH and, well, a whole ocean of water current to keep detritus from building up. Reef critters have never gone through generations of enviromental fluctuations in temperature, chemistry, etc. O.K. scratch that - at least not until recently (grrr....). OTOH, take a lake, pond, stream or river. Those fish (and others) have to be far more adaptable in order to survive what even the hardiest damsel would find to be horrifying extremes. Just a perspective.