Do PC's suck?

[shellisland]

Everything I have been reading has been Pro- MH's...of course, I just bought a set of 4x55 watt PC's for my 55 gallon...I have been told I should be able to successfully keep soft corals and clams with no probs..in anyone's experience is this true?? I know these are better than the stip that came with the tank but...thanks, carolyn

[enutees]

I used pc's successfully on a 50 gallon. In my opinion MH is only necessary if you plan on keeping SPS corals. (Some would argue that point with me) I do use VHO now, but that is just a personal issue on the appearance of the light. As far as growth I got equal from both.

[Dave]

I agree with Enutees the MH lights are best for SPS and deep tanks. I use PC's and have no problems. And I dont need a chiller alot of people with MH need a chiller.
Dave

[Agu]

PC's are great for a smaller tank, but they're not cost effective as the tank gets bigger. Compare the cost of replacing four PC's or one MH bulb. You have lower initial cost but higher ongoing costs with PC setups. BTW in my opinion most PC actinics are pathetic when it comes to bringing out the colors of corals.

[Joez]

MH rules.

[jimmy n]

I've successfully used pc's in the past, I like em....

With that said, my new 100 gallon will run 4 96 watt pcs on one side and a 10 k mh on the other. I'm going to see if this light makes a difference with the exact same water parameters....and some overlap in the middle

Jim

[JohnL]

Most soft corals will be ok. Most clams probably will not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shellisland:
I should be able to successfully keep soft corals and clams with no probs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Peace - John

[Minotaur15]

See my post on reefs.org. :)

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Dan - minotaur15@hotmail.com
http://www.einsweb.com/minotaur15/

[Anemone of the State]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnL:
Most soft corals will be ok. Most clams probably will not.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I've had a tridacna croaca (sp?) which I believe is the most intense light-loving of these clams for about 8 months under 4 x 55 W PC in a 55 2/3 from the top and it is happy as a clam. I just upgraded it with 2 X 26 W PC's in addition. My bubble-tip and soft corals are improving, and the clam is as happy as ever, but there was no evidence that the clam was suffering in any way.

Here is something to think about: According to Gauss's law, light emitted from a point source dies off as an inverse square of the distance between the source and the absorbing object, 1/(r^2). This is approximatelhy what happens with a metal halide lamp (and is why you get shimmering). With an infinite line source, approximated by a single long fluorescent lamp, it dies off as an inverse of the distance only, i.e., 1/r. From an infinite plane source, approximated by a bank of flourescent tubing, the intensity is distance-independent. So unless things are up close to your MH source, you may actually be better off with an equivalent intensity emitted from one or even better a bunch of fluorescent tubes. My coral and bubble-tip are growing like weeds to the point that I worry about being able to house them all now.

[Fengzi]

I agree with those that say PCs do not suck. I have 4x96 pcs over my 75g reef that work great. I have seen a lot of growth in all my corals, both hard and soft. If you need to go with PCs for one reason or another you can still keep SPS if they are placed high enough in the tank.

If you don't really "need" PC's go with MH.I had originall chosen PCs because I had inherited my tank from a friend and the canopy would not allow MH to be used. If I were to start another tank from scratch, however, I would definitely go with MH. Not neccessarily for the intensity of light but more for the fact that the MH will give that "ripply" effect. Anyone who has ever had the chance to dive on a tropical reef knows that this is much more natural than the flat light given by PCs or VHOs. Not only does this look cool but it has to be less stressful to the fish and inverts that can actually see. The more natural the better.

[Piege]

I use PC's on my 30 gal reef and love it. But for a larger tank, I would have to agree with Agu. They just aren't cost effective. For what you would spend to light a larger tank you could easily have bought MH.

As far as them not brigning out the colors in corals, I haven't found this to be the case in my 30 gallon tank.

HTH,
JP

[Larry M]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Minotaur15:
See my post on reefs.org. :)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey!! No fair. That must be a violation of a rule around here somewhere, lemme go check......if not I'll just make one up. ;)




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Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[Larry M]

Go for MH right away, if not you will probably upgrade to MH later like most people seem to do.

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Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[Aquaman]

Joez is right MH Rules :D

[coralhound]

PC's do not suck,
as a matter of fact I have three friends that have MH and cannot retain the color of the SPS frags that I have given/traded them

as far as what you can do with PC bulbs
check out my SPS
my 75 has 4 55WATT 6700K bulbs and 2 NO actinics
sorry the pics are a little outdated

CH

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Please BUY captive bred marine life...
My website: Moon Tide Reefs (http://www.qis.net/~ckkuehn)

[coralhound]

sorry go to my website and click the new pictures button
CH

------------------
Please BUY captive bred marine life...
My website: Moon Tide Reefs (http://www.qis.net/~ckkuehn)

[Bishop]

Though there may be some isolated cases such as coralhounds.. pc's still suck... MH are the way to go... there are other ways, but MH are the best. imo

[Jase]

Much as I would like to upgrade to MH, I am very happy with the 2x96 pc I have over my 38. I use the reflectors from AHsupply...those things kick back a lot of light.
I am succesfully keeping a dozen acros, whose colour has intensified substantially since I got them. All colonies have good growth.
I also have a Macrodactyla doreensis that has trpled in size in the last 4 months.
Ultimately I think halides are better, but for smaller tanks pc do just dandy.

[reefgal]

I run 5 96-watt PCs over my 90 gallon reef. I have two T. derasa clams about midway in the tank, several SPS frags at the top all thriving. Even a colony of porites growing on the tank floor is doing well. I'm thinking about replacing the middle bulb with MH. Mostly just for the shimmering effect. I avoided MH in the first place 'cause I was hoping to avoid having to get a chiller. No such luck! (Guess that's what I get for living in Phoenix.)

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Now, how do you pronounce (and/or spell) that again?

Reefgal in the desert

http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/DeckDr/desertreefer/reefcover.html

[Bishop]

Reefgal: You have a very VERY nice aquarium, very balanced in every aspect. You are using almost 500w of light over it. I personally think that if you had 1 400w metal halide you could do the same thing.

There is no doubt that PC's will perform as they are supposed to, but I think the amount of light generated by them watt for watt is substantially less.

I am not at all knocking your choice.

I simply feel that there are better options if heat is not a problem.

FWIW: I have 2 400w MHs, and 4 110w VHOs over my 150 and I have not had a heating problem yet. Summer is coming though. The bulbs are 5" off the water.. we'll see what happens. ;)

[JohnL]

Interesting... I had a T. maxima under 4x96 PCs and it lost a lot of color. When I put it in a friend's tank under a 400 MH, the color started to come back. I recently upgraded to 2x400 MH and put the T. maxima back into my tank and it slowly starting to regain its original color. From what I have read, the T. crocea needs the most intense light of all the Tridacna clams.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anemone of the state:
Well, I've had a tridacna croaca (sp?) which I believe is the most intense light-loving of these clams for about 8 months under 4 x 55 W PC in a 55 2/3 from the top and it is happy as a clam.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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Peace - John

[JohnL]

Caring for Tridacna Clams (http://www.harboraquatics.com/care/care_tridacna_maxima.htm)

[David Grigor]

I have or had all three types: PC/MH/VHO.

IMO: Starting out I would use an ICECAP ballast and run VHO. If/when the time comes to upgrade to MH all is not lost because you can still use the VHO for actinic supplementation or morning/evening lights.

If you purchase PC retro or DIY you can't reuse the ballast later to run VHO. Your stuck. PC Actinics don't even compare with VHO actinics.

Of the three types I have had the least success with PC. Knowing that there are lots of other variables but still think your better off with VHO and/or MH.

Not to mention the cost per bulb for the PCs Ouch when you get to replacing 4+ bulbs....

[joeyz]

I have a 4 x 96 watt pc set up and I see nothing wrong with it. Sure I have heard that the blue light sucks, but then again I have nothing to compare it to. The only tanks I have seen either have PC's or MH's.
I have never seen a VHO bulb in action. Agreed MH's are the top choice but I think PC's are still a good choice. In fact many people claim that a PC is the closest to a MH that you can get(here come the flamers ;)). I just don't see the need for MH's. They burn as hot as hell and I know several people who have burned themselves on it. They have come out with several new PC bulbs and eventually imo your choices will be the same as VHO. Maybe I am talking out of my ***, but my tank looks great and all the animals are healthy and growing nicely.
Also I got a great deal on my PC hood and I did not have to deal with wiring and mounting my own VHO hood. I am happy!
Oh ya and I do agree that the bulb replacement cost on PC's is sick but it has to come down one day.
BTW - how long do VHO's last? I heard that you have to change them every six months.
So where is the savings if you are changing your bulbs every 6 months at 25-30 bucks a pop vs 39-43 for pc's..........

Flame away.......

[hesaias]

If im not mistaken, an Icecap 660 will run PC and VHO bulbs. Try which ever you like. Keep the option of MH open for later. I bought my corals out of a 75 gal tank w/390w PC light. I sold back 2 xenia frags to the same guy a minth later, out of my 45 hi( the xenia was farther from the light source) and mw frags were more colorful than the other frags he had. The ones he had were in the tank when I bought mine in the 1st place, I use 390w VHO. I am skittish about SPS and Clams though.

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hesaias

My Homepage (http://www.angelfire.com/on2/hesaias/index.html)

[Agu]

Most reefers go from NO to VHO/PC to MH. Is there anyone out there who's dumped their MH because the their corals grew better and looked better under VHO or PC lighting?

[David Grigor]

Go with a ICECAP ballast so you can run both types. That way you can decide for yourself without having to reinvest in another ballast.

Personally, Having had both, I think tanks looks better and color of corals come out better using VHO vs. PC.

I have heard/seen PC coming out with new Kelvin bulbs but have now clue if they are the real deal or just another "fake" bulb like the PC actinics.

You can replace VHO bulbs every six months vs. PC once a year for basically the same cost. But IMO the PC bulbs don't hold up good enough to make it a full year.

[Anemone of the State]

The PC actinics are only 7100K or something like that, but they are fairly blue (the blackbody radiation approximation used to characterize lights is only good for incandescent lamps anyway), so the 7100K rating is fairly meaningless. If you need the extra blue in the spectrum, then convetional VHO fluorescents might work better, but as far as I am concerned MH spectra more closely duplicate the sun, at least if they are about 6000K.

I'm reasonably content with what I have, but if I had a large system (&gt; 55 gal) MH would be preferable. I was worried mainly by the cost and heat output, and the possibility of explosion or fire from these bulbs (I have kids). By the time I upgraded my PC's to 8 W/gal, I didn't save any money over a system with two 175 W or even 250 W metal halides. I do think the heat problem with a 55 would have been a problem for me. You can "solve" that by running without a shield and using fans, but that leads to excessive evaporation that you really have to stay on top of.

My main gripe with the PCs is that 8 months after purchasing, I thought things looked kind of dim, and that is why I bought an additional 2 X 96 W PC's. When I installed them it became quite apparent that these things loose a fair amount of intensity after burning for a short lifetime. Take the light output rating with a grain of salt. I don't know if other bulbs do this because all I have is NO or PCs on my aquariums. But it did tick me off.

[fishpoo]

sure pc's work, mh works, vho works. it's all advertising, 400watts mh that's macho.
the old ways are not anymore. ultralumes? what the heck is that? why are more men in this hobby than women? because we buy into it.

[Larry M]

fishpoo--It's not all macho. You should see some corals change color when going from NO to mh, or from a lower wattage MH to a higher wattage. Then you would know why people go for the big lights. Color, growth rate, polyp extension--they all improve.

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Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[Jester]

I'm just putting another good opion of PC's. I have retro fitted two 36 watt PC bulbs into my Eclipse II hood. The tank has done great since I've changed the lighting.

Do you think I could get a MH bulb to fit in the Eclipse tank hood...?? :D Just joking....

Jester

[fishpoo]

Larry, what you say is very true. however, i believe you will see the same results with pc's or vho if you move them closer to the light. i know the benefits of mh, but we all can't have them. my tank is in such a small room, the heat would be too much. my post was meant as a vote for pc's, not to knock to mh.
i may be crazy, but i'm not dumb.

[bigben]

Bandwagon, bandwagon, bandwagon....

On my 20gal high, I currently have the 2x55W PC's only, and I'm SUCCESSFULLY keeping 6 species of SPS, including Montipora capricornis, digitata, and others (granted, these aren't the extremely picky acropora). These specimens CAME FROM a MH only tank, and they're growing like weeds while retaining beautiful color. As soon as I get my hands on a good camera, I'll back up my claims.

I'm also successfully keeping 2 types of xenia, a green hammer, goniopora (YES), tree coral similiar to colt, branching brain, and several types of zoanthids and other polyps.

As mentioned above, tank size (especially depth) is important. IMO, water quality is equally as important as lighting, and it is probably the key factor in my success.

Sorry to step on any toes. I just don't want people to shy away from methods that are successful just because of popular opinion.

HTH,

Ben

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"Bake 'em away, toys."

--Police Chief Wigham

[Larry M]

Fishpoo--I didn't call you crazy or dumb. I just said corals color up nicely under higher wattage lights. IMO MH is the best way to do that. I have never understood the fear of heat from MH lights. I've had both 175w and 250w MH and have never had a problem with the heat. But to each their own.

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Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[BrianD]

On my 180 gallon tank, I have the following:

2-96W PC (both actinic)
3-140W VHO (actinic)
2-400W 6500K MH

The comparison between colors under PC and VHO is no comparison, IME. VHO actinics are far superior and colors are much nicer.

As for the MH, they are a wonderful light source. They penetrate deep to the bottom of the tank and look very nice when combined with the actinic lighting from the PC/VHO. My tank looks at its best about 2 hours after the MH kick on. I plan on adding some clams in a few weeks, and I wanted to be sure my lighting would be sufficient. When I watch those MH perform, I have no doubts about them getting enough light.

BTW, the 6500K Iwasaki were distinctly yellow when I first got the lights, but after a few weeks of "burning" the lights in that has dissipated for the most part.

Brian