Live Rock, Sand and off-shoot coral business

[Reef Madness]

Hello to all,
My name is Craig Watson and I live on Harstine Island in the South Sound, about 40 minutes from downtown Olympia.

My wife Stephanie and myself built two commercial greenhouses on our five acre property in 1983 and we sold annual and perennial bedding plants for ten years.

The greenhouses have been empty for a number of years until I got involved in Reef Keeping. I now have a few hundred gallons of production in large white plastic containers while I work on plumbing and wiring the main greenhouse for rows of commercial grow vats.

My dream is to have a large rock system for curing rock, a divided system for finishing (growing out) LR and cultured sand, and two soft coral/leather/lps systems and two sps systems, one for quarantine and one for growing/fragging/spawning.

I live in and around the town of Shelton and I am forced to drive at least to Olympia (or now to Silverdale!) to shop for even the most basic equipment, or use internet/mailorder.

My experience when shopping for LR and corals on the web opened my eyes to starting this little enterprise, BUT I also know regular business from local (?) customers is a must. My point of view gets messed up because I MUST drive to Olympia, Lakewood, Issaquah, etc. to SEE what I want to buy, regardless of how much I have to pay or how far the drive.

My question is for everyone else.... How far do you drive to buy from reputable businesses like those that support PSAS, and would you drive 2 hours to an island in the southsound if the selection was good, the price was fair, and everything was grown under supplemented natural light?

Mind you, this is the sticks....!!!

Thank You,
Craig

[dogf]

Effective at the end of this month, I will have no choice but to drive 1 1/2 hours from my new residence if I am to buy anything.
So, yes I would. But if you started this business near me I certainly would try your product. Point is, are there reefers living near you that your not aware of? Maybe a local ad will bring in local customers?

[Reef Madness]

I'm sure there are.
I know there are quite a few in Olympia, however, that is 40 minutes away.

I live on an Island in a county with 35,000 people, with the populace split between two areas, Shelton/Olympia in the west and Belfair/Bremerton to the east.

This demands one of two things.

One, I produce goods at such a great price and have such a low overhead that I sell wholesale only and allow retailers to use their space more profitably and to increase their profit margin/discount....

Or

Two, I produce goods at a great price and have such a low overhead that I can count on retail customers driving the distance because the selection and prices are worth it.

I have no doubt I can draw South Sound customers because they already have to drive.

Thanks,
Craig

[Zephrant]

Option 3: Contact local and not-so-local FS and see if they would be willing to buy from you. I suggest contacting Helen at Ocean View Aquatics here in Spokane (www.oceanviewaquatics.com) and seeing if she would consider it.

While I might make a once-in-my-life trip to your place to see how you do things, 400 miles is too far for me to go for normal purchases. :)

I could also be convinced to try a mail-order of things I only saw pictures of, providing I was convinced of the quality and there was a sufficient guarantee in place.

Zeph

[Reef Madness]

Option 3 is great for LR, LS and captive raised corals.

To answer the other question as well, ie: guarantees etc.

Let me say that I got this idea from the way I was treated and the product I *ended up* purchasing from on-line dealers.

There are two rules that come into play here.
1. IF I don't take care of my customer they will be come someone else's.

2. On the internet, that is suicide. If you don't do as you say you may as well cash in your chips now...

To me LR is the only item we buy that has an immediate and long-lasting impact on how our reef or fish tank looks and functions. We can either look at bare, or worse white rock, without character or life for weeks or months or we can buy rock that has been cured with care and grown-on with life and color to it. Surprisingly the price difference is in many cases non-existent or the better rock is less expensive.

In any case, all it takes is one dissatisfied customer on RC or here in the Puget Sound area to ruin business.

Craig

[MtnDewMan]

I live near Everett in Mukilteo. I normally will easily travel to Issaquah or Bellevue or Seattle for my aquarium needs. Going the distance to Vancouver, WA (which I still need to do) and to Bremerton are a bit further and time consuming and will probably be lower on the list. Unless the livestock was GREAT and the prices were right.

Bottom line, if you have the right stuff people want to buy at decent prices, they will come ... at least from the Seattle area. The die hards anyway, the ones not near as passionate about the hobby will likely stick around the local stores.

Just my .02 cents worth.

[skylsdale]

Reef Madness, I live over here in central WA(Cashmere, actually) and don't have ANYTHING when it comes to supplies, livestock, etc. at my disposal. So I must mail order or drive 2.5 hours west to Issaquah or Seattle. Olympia is a little bit farther, and I couldn't see myself regularly heading down there, but if you did have great quality LR, I would definitely consider buying from you when I setup my system, and possibly making a trip back down once in a while.

I have seen nothing but overpriced crap when it comes to LR at LFS's. It's usually bleached with just a little bit of coraline on it. I want diversity! If you were able to have your LR sit and recover in a few holding systems(and keep it relatively pest free--mantis, etc.) I think you would have quite a few locals willing to buy their LR from you. The same goes for LS if you could get some nice stuff going.

The softies would be fairly easy, but I think your real target would have to be SPS, which is really what people are interested in right now.

[Mushroom Boy]

Hi Craig,

I would definitely enjoy coming to see your setup. I live in Seattle, and yes, the drive would be somewhat prohibitive, but I enjoy heading down your way and would be inclined to do so. I typically shop in Seattle or Issaquah for my local supplies.
Bottom line, if you have the right stuff people want to buy at decent prices, they will come ... at least from the Seattle area.
I agree 100% with MtnDewMan's statement. I'm just thinking out loud at this point, but it would be fun to have a PSAS meeting at your place to see a greenhouse reef in operation. I know I'd love to see it. It would also give you some exposure to local hobbyists, many of whom, don't think twice about long drives (i.e., Vancouver, or Seattle (from Spokane)) for quality products.

JM$.02

Paul

[Reef Madness]

Actually that's what I was thinking, as soon as there is something to see!

The first system will be LR and sand, by necessity.

I'm just wondering where I'll put 60-some people, but it might be really fun for an open house Grand opening kind of party.

Of course there would have to be some special sale and PSAS discount to entice the masses to drive to the sticks!

I sure appreciate everyone's input on this. As you all know it isn't inexpensive to do this right, even when you treat it as an agricultural type enterprise. Bulk aragonite alone will wake you up!

Hey, it could be orchids or something silly like that!

Thank You!
Craig

[kevinpo]

I live about 350 miles (one way) from your location but I would make the drive once a month or so if the quality and price were excellent (I might even bring a few other reefers with me :D )

Regards,
Kevin

[Gordo]

I live in Olympia, so I would have no issues with giving you my money :D

~Gordo~

[Periclimenes Lover]

I would come once in a while if the prices and livestock were right, and I would definitely come just to check it out at least once. Also, my parents live in Rochester so I go through Olympia about once every two weeks anyway, but it sounds like you are about 40 min from Olympia? Also do you think you would be selling RO/DI water? I buy it locally at Saltwatercity, but if you had it for a good price that would be something I could pick up once every couple months. And then I would have to shop for the softies I like too. :)

[Reef Madness]

Wow!
How could a person resist going for it?

You guys are great!

I don't see why water would be a problem, make-up for even a small system will be substantial in the summer months, so that is a constant. Especially with vats that have more surface exposure than aquariums. I can see I'll need more water storage.....

You know, the crazies like *me* could make the circuit, go I-5 through Oly, even to Vancouver/Portland, return up 5 to 101, North on 101 to 3 north, drop in here, go on to Shark's Reef in Silverdale, then hit the ferry to one of several points across the pond or head down 16 to I-5 and home. Okay, I would have to pick and choose, time would fly by and I would never get to several places, but I would hit those next time (or the next)!

Thanks!
Craig

[skylsdale]

You've mentioned doing predominantly softies, but if you had a seperate system or two(free from chemical warfare from the softies) I would suggest trying out some SPS and possibly clams. To get a jump start, maybe a few local reefers would be willing to donate a small frag or two to help get you started, or possibly in exchange for a few cups of LS to add some diversity to their sandbeds.

Just an idea...

[Reef Madness]

I plan on having sps/clams and softies....two systems for each, a QT holding system and a grow-out/frag system.

Egad this is a lot of space and water!


Have to have sps and clams, *I* want those too!

Thank you for the input!
Craig

[jsronce]

I know I'm coming in on this rather late (and with an odd point of view), but I'd like to point out that there IS a market for mantis shrimps, even the small pest kind. Drop in on the mantis species forum here, and you'll notice that every time someone shows up and announces they have one in their tank that needs to be removed, a chorus of "I want it!" goes up.

Would you have any interest in separating the mantises out rather than killing them and selling them on the side, or selling/giving them to someone that wanted to? I could probably persuade the hubby to let me set up some kind of holding tanks somewhere.... :)

Jennifer

[goldscarf]

I am also dropping in really late into this forum, however I live in Kent and if the price was right, I would definately go and see the selection. Fish Gallery and Pets who own Blue Sierra have very high prices for their LR so that would be wonderful to find someone willing to give great prices on it.

[Reef Madness]

Thank you for the reply!

We're getting there slowly but surely!

Are focus is rock and sand. We'll post all the lists and set up some advertising when we are open.

I do sincerely thank you all for your helpful responses!
It's definitely encouraging!

Craig Watson

[Zack S]

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!:D :D :smokin:

[mal37]

I would drive from Camano. I have to drive to seattle, bellingham or Issiquah as it is. A bit further is not a big deal if quality, price and service are up to snuff. Keep us up to date on things, I too would love to come down and see your set up. It sounds awesome.

[mal37]

I would drive from Camano. I have to drive to seattle, bellingham or Issiquah as it is. A bit further is not a big deal if quality, price and service are up to snuff. Keep us up to date on things, I too would love to come down and see your set up. It sounds awesome. I'm really late into this one......... and double posted.....DOH!

[NOWICKI]

I'm late too but better late then never :)

I had one suggestion:
I know I would make the drive from Whidbey Island if I knew what I was after. I was thinking that if you had a website that had your methods, history, maps to your sticks! :D , and ovcourse pictures of the products. You don't actually have to ship. We could just make an online reservation and then come and pick it up.

Good luck with the setup! I may have to come and see it!!

Cheers, Ryan

[Reef Madness]

Thanks Ryan!
I am planning on stocking LR and corals and photos are definitely a great way to go for both.

I prefer this myself if I can't see it in person. It would be way better if I could see whatever I was looking for BEFORE driving all over Western Washington!

Thanks again for your help!
Craig

[Baddogsoekopup]

Drop me a line when you get everything together. I have several people, including myself who would be in terested in purchasing curtured LR at a decent price. Great idea.
Rick

The thriving METROPOLIS of Graham, WA

[Reef Madness]

Absolutely! Consider it done.

I'm getting a pallet of aragonite this week, rock's coming up soon!

Being from the booming metropolis of Graham, you can understand trying to start this thing in Shelton.....where is that? LOL!

Thank you for the support Rick!

Craig

[NOWICKI]

Craig, you wouldn't be selling any of your aragonite by chance would you? :D
~Ryan

[Reef Madness]

I sure am Ryan, how much do you need?

This is bagged dry aragonite specifically for aquariums (not southdown).

Usually sells for $30-40 for 40 lb bags, I have it for $25 ea., $20 ea. for ten or more bags.

It should be here next Friday.

Thank you!
Craig