Starting my 25 gal

[TPS-Dive]

Well, I did it. I've officially joined. I'm starting a 25 gal tank. I've pretty much decided on the lights, 250W MH. I'm thinking of including a Remora skimmer. The tough part is the pump. How much flow? 30 turn overs in an hour based on 25 gal is 750 gph. Do I base my turn over on the size of the tank or actual amount of water? I'm scared this thing will look like a hot tub at 750 gph. Frank, what did you have in this tank? Jeff tells me not to worry.
IMG]http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0625.jpg[/IMG]

[TPS-Dive]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0625.jpg

Picture didn't paste. I'll try this again.

[vest0830]

I just had a single seio. If I were to do it again, I would put 2 maxi-jets in there, one on each side in the corner.


edit: on a wavemaker

[N1ceDrgn]

Just for some ideas...

One of the tanks I am running right now, is a 29g. I am using a Fluval on it for water filtration and circulation. I also have a MaxiJet 600 for movement as well. In regards to skimming, I'm using a CPR Bakpak 2 with an airstone inserted for additional skimming.

[jeffb3t]

What TPS and I have been talking about is going with a manifold system instead of powerheads. Power heads can be a pain when they keep falling thus the manifold idea. It would consist of 4 each 1/2 inch loclines with locline ball valves on each one that can be adjusted in any direction. With each one placed in the corner reaching all deadspots will be easy. With the manifold idea, only one pump will be required as well.

[N1ceDrgn]

They do sell magnets for mounting power heads now. I've converted most of mine to this and haven't had 'any issues' with them. Aside from the occassional plugging/ clogging that goes on.

[vest0830]

I like the manifold idea.

[jeffb3t]

The point of the manifold idea is to keep the equipment out so the focus is on the coral instead. Magnets do work but Powerheads take up space and look unattractive .

[N1ceDrgn]

I understand both points of view you bring up. I wasn't sure if you were aware of the magnet option for powerheads or not. As I mentioned earlier, it's something that recently showed up here. I'll admit that I'm not sure if this is a new option either.
Once I relocate, I'm also going to move away from power heads and utilize a PVC plumbing deisgn I have. Instead of solely relying on the 'manifolds' on my overflows, I have been working on an idea I saw in use on a tank in CO. Instead of using any loc-line and powerheads, the plumbing for water movement was neatly hidden behind rock work and eventually covered by transplanted coraline. He routed PVC from his sump up and into his tank evenly spaced across the back of his tank. Then, combining his rock scaping and plumbing, it's all neatly hidden. He used plastic water sprinkler heads for rotating heads and has these heads spaced in specific locations to create a small wave effect, offset by surge pumps for a greater effect. It was all quite impressive, the setup he designed and built, all the way through how it functioned.
Using a return pump, making use of 1" PVC and 1" unions, it was a really interesting design. I'll admit for the first few months, it was not very impressive to look at. Once his tank stabilized and the coraline algae he planted on the PVC grew, you couldn't see any of it.

[TheDeparted]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9463970#post9463970 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by N1ceDrgn
I understand both points of view you bring up. I wasn't sure if you were aware of the magnet option for powerheads or not. As I mentioned earlier, it's something that recently showed up here. I'll admit that I'm not sure if this is a new option either.
Once I relocate, I'm also going to move away from power heads and utilize a PVC plumbing deisgn I have. Instead of solely relying on the 'manifolds' on my overflows, I have been working on an idea I saw in use on a tank in CO. Instead of using any loc-line and powerheads, the plumbing for water movement was neatly hidden behind rock work and eventually covered by transplanted coraline. He routed PVC from his sump up and into his tank evenly spaced across the back of his tank. Then, combining his rock scaping and plumbing, it's all neatly hidden. He used plastic water sprinkler heads for rotating heads and has these heads spaced in specific locations to create a small wave effect, offset by surge pumps for a greater effect. It was all quite impressive, the setup he designed and built, all the way through how it functioned.
Using a return pump, making use of 1" PVC and 1" unions, it was a really interesting design. I'll admit for the first few months, it was not very impressive to look at. Once his tank stabilized and the coraline algae he planted on the PVC grew, you couldn't see any of it.

I'm kinda syked about doing the BB set up that I was chatting with you about last night... from what Ive been reading, flow is going to be the key here. If you get the best flow in the right areas, maintinace on a BB should be minimal.

If/when I do a bigger tank, Id like to incorperate a totally hidden return system like the one your talking about here.. mabey not exactly the same, but if it works, why change the wheel.. lol

[N1ceDrgn]

This is true, it's always possible to make changes. I liked what I saw for many reasons, it was different, it was unique and also fascinating how everything had been engineered and worked so well.

I'll try to find the web link for this guys tank and pass it on.

[jeffb3t]

That is the nice thing about the states. All the plumbing parts you could ever wish for. Too bad we don't have that kind of selection here.

[N1ceDrgn]

I don't see why not? There are a lot of places to get parts, the downside is most of them are not advertised and it's more about looking around and asking around there.

[jeffb3t]

Oh, trust me about asking. I spend more time at construction stores than anything. A lot of shops know me quite well now. I can usually make anything I find work but sometimes I want a really clean install where the part I need is no where to be found. Like bulkheads. We have some that will work here but I want really thin ones like in the states and the only ones they make here are metal.

[N1ceDrgn]

Well, I don't know if 'TheDeparted' has mentioned it or not but I do work at a store here. I've offered it up to others in the past but if there's anything you're looking for, hit me up and I'll be glad to check it out and get a price back to you.

[jeffb3t]

Here like in Okinawa? Which one? Mostly what I would like to find is bulkheads. Like I said before, I can find and make just about anything work but sometiems you want that certain look. I know I can order online but I hate waiting sometimes for a $5 part.

[N1ceDrgn]

Well, like I mentioned, I know what it's like to be over there and either need or want something specific. If I can help out, drop me a line and I have no issues picking something up and dropping it in the mail.

[teto_78]

Hey Jeff,

I remember you saying you had a hard time finding union joints... and I'm pretty sure I've seen them at Marunaka, they have a whole floor in their building dedicated to just PVC,

[TPS-Dive]

Well plan A was to keep the cube on my desk.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/Tankside.jpg
After calculating the weight of the tank and standing on my desk I decided to move to plan B which is to build a stand and add a sump. I'm now in the same sump queries as TheDeparted and Lionel. The stand dimensions are the limiting factor on sump size. It's probably going to be a custom job. Be nice if I could find a rubbermaid/tupperware bucket that would work. Seems odd to pay more for the sump than the tank.

[vest0830]

make a TALL sump. Do like the Okinawans, build up instead of across. :lol:

[N1ceDrgn]

There isn't anyone that does acryllic work there?

[jeffb3t]

There are folks who will do it but for a hefty price. Sometimes it's easier/cheaper to DIY. The small 16 gl drain tank I made from 5mm acrylic turned out good. No leaks and no need for weldon16. The #4 did the trick for me.

[TPS-Dive]

Well, here's the first attempt at a sump design. Those are 1" baffels and the center baffel is 1" off the bottom. The refuse baffle is the same height as the center baffel (not sure if this is necessary). To simplify this down a little bit I was thinking about swapping the refuse and return. I also have 3" to 4" from the water level to the top of the tank. You think that is too much?
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/Sump1.jpg
This is a rough idea of the stand. I thought of maybe sloping the hood and doing an Okinawa tile roof thing but not quite sure how to do that.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/stand1.jpg

[vest0830]

I like that. I think the sump looks like a real good plan. Also, I like the canopy. I assume you are going to build down around the pumps and such also? i.e. make it all enclosed so it doesnt overhang like that??

[TPS-Dive]

After learning more about the skimmer I had to scrap the first sump design. Jeff and I came up with this jigsaw puzzle of a sump. The over flow will come down to the skimmer. The Skimmer will dump into the refuse, refuse through the baffels to the return, and then back up to the tank.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/Sumpback.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/sumpfront.jpg
This works nice by keeping all the plumbing in the back. Access to the sump will be though doors on the side of the stand. (Ignore the hood. I haven't figured that out yet.)
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/stand2.jpg

[vest0830]

When you do decide on the hood, VENTING!!!! my tank would get stupid hot from my 175mh in there, and I had the entire back section open, in my house where the AC was directly hitting the tank (and on all day, thanks to base power :lol:) That design looks real good though. Only thing, why did you lift the skimmer? That could be a trap for bad stuff...also, no fuge? easy way around that...take a small basket and put styrofome around the top, and put some chaeto in that...

[TPS-Dive]

The skimmer can only set in 12" of water max according to the manufacturer. I assume this has to do with the water exiting the skimmer which is 12.5" from the bottom. I was a little worried about the space under the skimmer too but Jeff says no big deal plus it adds more volume to the return. I seen on one of the old threads that someone had built a "shelf" in their sump for the skimmer too.

[vest0830]

We built brett a shelf. How much more water are you adding under the little shelf area there...1/2 gallon, if that? Its an area for water to stand, and standing water in a saltwater tank is a no no. Just a thought...

[TheDeparted]

I have to put a small powerhead in my skimmer area to keep water from standing under my... ahh... stand. :)

[jeffb3t]

The main reason we lifted the skimmer was to create additional volume in the return area. Not woried about stagnate water under that area since the return pump is there and will be pulling that water too. Due to the size of the sump anyway, any additional volume is good since we don't want to add water every day.

[vest0830]

I guess it sorta depends on where you put your pump but water def. stands under my fuge. If/when I do it again, I wont put any spaces in my sump that would have any standing water. I personally would stay away from the lifted area.

[TPS-Dive]

Jeff constructed the frame last weekend.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/2007-04-23Stand.jpg
Man it's getting exciting now. I was going to place my order for an overflow and sump pump but Bluezoo's database didn't have an APO address and wouldn't except CA for the state. I emailed the company. They said they would ship to an APO address but charge a flat $35 for shipping.

I'm thinking of doing a faux coral stone pattern for the stand.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P4240034.jpg
I've been surfing HGTV website on faux (pronounced foe...French word...go figure) painting and it looks very cool and not that difficult. Finding the right type of paint may be difficult but I'm sure they have similar stuff here on Okinawa.

[jeffb3t]

I'm looking forward to seeing this thing up and running in the office. START ORDERING MAN!!!!

[TPS-Dive]

First experiment is complete. Here is the evolution. The first stage what to apply some plaster and then wipe on a dark brown.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0693.jpg
next we added a lighter color
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0694.jpg
then we white washed all the stones except one
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0695.jpg

[TPS-Dive]

compare
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0696.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0701.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0698.jpg
Next experiment I'm going with smaller grout lines and skipping the black paint.

[jeffb3t]

I have seen this personally and it really looks like rock. It will be quite nice with the thinner grout line though. TPS is still testing out ideas on creating the natural rock appearance but so far it looks quite promising.

[vest0830]

that looks real nice!

[TPS-Dive]

Experiment 2 done. This has smaller grout lines and more texture to the stone. I said I wasn't going to use black paint but thought I'd try a thinner brush. We also painted the wood black before adding the plaster. The added texture made it hard to rub on the paint. I think the smoother stone in this experiment looks better.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0707.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0710.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_0711.jpg

[TPS-Dive]

Jeff completed the sump for me. I think my next step is going to be to finish the stand.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/metricsump.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/2007-06-15sump1.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/2007-06-15sump3.jpg

[TPS-Dive]

I finally pulled the trigger and bought the rest of the equipment my tank needs and all the parts have arrived. I've relocated my tank to "Building Central" ie Jeff's house. My goal is to have water in my tank by December. This may seem like a indolent goal but I am a very experienced procrastinator and I believe I can achieve it.:D

[jeffb3t]

December is a little late IMO. Don't worry TPS, I will give you the "kick" you need to finish it by say... end of October????

[Sango-chu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9462911#post9462911 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by N1ceDrgn
They do sell magnets for mounting power heads now. I've converted most of mine to this and haven't had 'any issues' with them. Aside from the occassional plugging/ clogging that goes on.
NiceDrgn, where did u get the magnets? Locally. I just got done doing the MJMOD to the jetstream powerhead and its blowing it right off the glass!!! I need to have a magnet on the outside strong enough to hold on to it...I will just glue a piece of stainless steel onto the pump for the magnet to attach to from the inside...please let me know.

[TPS-Dive]

We water tested the tank today. My close loop manafold failed. The pump leaked before even turning it on. Looks like I'll have to go back to the manufacturer to find a solution for the pump. The Sump pump preformed very well. It sure was fun watching it work. Thanks again Jeff for the help this weekend.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/2007-10-07watertest.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/2007-10-07tankflow.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/2007-10-07LeakingEhime.jpg

[TPS-Dive]

A quick update on my progress. I don't know if I'll make December but it's still the goal. I have the hood framed. Still needs some work before I can add the skin. The end product should resemble an Okinawan roof.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010040.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P4230023.jpg

[TheDeparted]

thats a cool idea...

[TPS-Dive]

I painted the stand this week. It's ready to be taped up and plastered. I got my pump part for the closed loop system, and I started cutting the skin for the hood. I bought a 133 cfm computer fan from Goodwill and bought a power source on line. I messed up the top cut for the hood so I get to cut that again. I had the top piece all screwed and glued in when I realized I made a mistake so I had to chisel it off.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010041.jpghttp://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010042.jpg

[TPS-Dive]

I've started plastering the stand. I have the front done and did one side this weekend. It's coming out OK. Below are pictures in progress. I tape off the grout lines, spray paint it black, then add plaster. After the plaster sets up a bit I pull off the grout line tape and vola I have my rocks. My wife thinks it looks like a cookie.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010046.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010047.jpg

[jeffb3t]

That's a really nice cookie you got there! Glad to see progress is being made!

[jeffb3t]

So..... how about a status update???????

[TPS-Dive]

All three sides are plastered and ready for a light sanding and paint. I cut some trim pieces for the top of the stand because I didn't like the edge the plaster makes and thought I needed a better transition to the top of the stand. I still have to glue the trim to the stand. The hood has most of the skin in place and I'm working on the roof rib that will run up the sides and around the top. I haven't figured out how the side rib and top are going to meet. I'm also cutting pieces for the tile. Power tools are too fast for the small wood so I tried to fabricate a miter block last weekend. I bought a ¥100 miter block for the 90 and 45 cuts but I'll need 30 and 60 as well. The goal for next week will be to finish painting the stand and attach the doors to the hood.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC180023.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010056.jpg

[TPS-Dive]

I managed to finish the stand this year.
First color added
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC260024.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC260025.jpg
Second color added
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC270027.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC270026.jpg
Final color and clear coat
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC300032.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC300033.jpg
Here is a close up of the handles. I was going to go with sea shells but Jeff had the idea of using actual rock. I liked his idea better.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/PC300034.jpg

I'm still working on the hood. While I was filling my car up with gas the other day I looked across the street at Risner's sign and saw the solution on how I will join the top ribs with the side ribs.

[TPS-Dive]

Here is a mock up of the hood.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/P1010036.jpg

[magrath]

I have never seen anyone keep a stand and empty tank as a hobby. I think you might be starting a new trend, at least one that does not require any maintenance :)


Seriously, I like the look of your stand and hood, good luck on the rest of the project!

[jeffb3t]

Actually, he was only keeping the stand... The rest was at my house....

Wish you all could see it in person. It turned out really great. Nothing like I expected when he first mentioned the idea. We finished all plumbing today, shot the back black and it is ready anytime for water. Only thing left is the hood.

[jeffb3t]

Ok since TPS is really good at procratinating, I will post up for him. The tank is fully plumbed/set up/ready for WATER!!! Finally!!!. As in my last post, the only thing left is the hood and light but at this point, you don't need light to cycle a tank and oh, I have 4 ea 5 gallons cans heading your way tomorrow so we can finally fill this thing and adjust it. BTW. 2 cans are full of saltwater already.

[TPS-Dive]

Here are some more pics of the empty tank and stand. The hood still needs legs in the back, side doors, shingles, and paint. At my pace that's another 2 months :) Kanehede ran out of 20mm half dowels so that may set me back a bit. I will try to get sand and water in this weekend.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/IMG_1102.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i196/TerryDive/20080107_0001e.jpg