Sorry, another ich question

[bingo]

I've had my Hippo Tang for about a week and a half now, and I'm afraid I'm going to loose him to ich. The day after I got him, I noticed the white spots near his gills and on his top fin. I put him in my 10 gallon Q-tank, and treated with "quick cure" for 2 days. This seemed to only keep the ich at bay, even though it's supposed to cure in days (my a**). I then treated with Cupramine for a few days. After a week in the Q-tank and not much improvement, I put him back in my display tank after hearing that with a proper home, most tangs will get over the initial ich on their own. Well, it seems to be getting worse. I have been feeding food soaked in garlic, but I have an anemone in my big tank, so I'm not sure what else I can do for him w/o harming my anemone. I know that "quick cure" isn't the best stuff to be using, but can I use it in my display tank with inverts? Would hyposalinity be possible in my big tank? Any help would be greatly appreciated...

[FishBait]

I don't have any experience with quick cure, so I can't really help you there. You never gave any specs on your tank, it seems to me that if the infection is getting worse something is still acting as a stressor. Are you sure nothing is being agressive with it (maybe at night when your not watching) or maybe there's something about the water or setup it doesn't like. Maybe some more info might be helpfull.

[bingo]

The only thing I can see that would be stressing him out could be my blue damsel. They are getting along better now, but the damsel was very teritorial at first. The only other inhabitant is a baby Volitans Lion, and there are no problems there. I am going to get some more LR Monday or Tuesday to add some hiding places and hopefully mix up the territories a little. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate all read 0, my PH is 8.0, temp 88F, and my SG is 1.023. I don't want to spark a debate here, but what is safe for me to treat in my tank if I should be treating at all? I don't want to use the Q-tank because of the added stress of moving and the small quarters. Thanks...

[FishBait]

Well, if it comes down to needing medication, I use Greenex for ick at work, and it should be safe for the anemone as well, u don't want any copper treatements in there. If the damsel is still giving him a rough time (even if it's less often then it used to be) I might try to catch it and move it to the q-tank while treating the hippo. This will relieve that stressor and allow the tang to settle in a little more, then the re-introduction of the damsel, if u still want it, will switch the roles, making the damsel the newcomber and the hippo can have "homefield" advantage :)

[john f]

Greenex does'nt work for Ich (cryptocaryon)
If you can keep it in the the Q tank then hyposalinity works the best.
Copper works but it is difficult to keep the levels in the therapeutic range to affect a cure.

I think the sg needs to be at 1.09 for like 3 weeks for a cure. Although 1.09 will probably wipe all the active spots from the fish in a day or two.

Do NOT use the low salinity in the reef tank itself or you will kill most of your inverts.

John

[bingo]

So would it be recommended to try hyposalinity in my Q-tank? I probably shouldn't have moved the tang back to my good tank, but all of this moving concerns me. I have considered taking the damsel out for a little bit, but catching that thing is next to impossible without taking everything out of the tank, and I don't like that idea. Could I safely try the "quick cure" in my good tank? Are there any other options for me w/o the Q-tank? Thanks again...

[Terry B]

Bingo,
You didn't give any of the medications enough time to work. If you are sure that your tang has ich then ALL the fish in the display have been exposed. Soaking the foods in garlic each day is the only reef safe treatment that might work. If you want a sure cure (if it is ich) then hyposalinity is the best bet. If your tank is a Fish only without live rock or inverts then you can use hyposalinity in your display. If not treat in quarantine, but don't expect the fish to be cured in a couple of days. Treating one fish when the others have been exposed is probably going to be futile. Do a search on hyposalinity.
Terry B

[bingo]

Well, I'm a little confused, because I am relatively new to the saltwater world. This looks like ich to me, but the LFS owner thinks that it is probably tears in the flesh from nets, etc. when I described the symptons on the phone. I trust this LFS, but either way, I don't want to loose this fish! The white marks are around his left gill, and along a portion of the top fin. It looks grainular to me. Could these be flesh tears? According the LFS, if it was ich, it would be all over him by now. Any more ideas or suggestions for me? Thanks...

[billsreef]

Ich pretty much looks like small pinhead white spots. If it was skin damage due to handling it should have been apparent when you brought the fish.

BTW any ich cures require at least a 3 week treatment, this stuff has a much longer cycle than the FW ich your used too. Quick Cure can work but that 2 day nonsense is just that, it does not work any faster than any other malachite green and formalin blend. If your looking for a reliable cure IMO hyposalinty is the way to go.

[derik4475]

i personaly dont have a q-tank although i think it is a good idea but now that you have him in your main tank dont stress him out any more. the most important thing now is to make sure he is eating well.it may take awhile for the iche to come under control but if he is eating good then he will more then likely pull through. unfortunetly if he isnt eating i think it is to late. i have had a hippo tang go for 2 monthes with ich then all of a sudden be clear from then on. good luck

[bingo]

He is eating well, and besides the white spots, seems to be acting normal. I'm going to give hime some more time in the display tank to see if it clears up. I am feeding with garlic, so maybe that will help. I too don't want to stress him out by another move. Is it safe for me to use "quick cure" with my other fish, LR, inverts? The bottle doesn't say. Thanks...

[Terry B]

Bingo,
Your fish may have lymphocystis which is not really treatable. It will usually go away with good water quality and a varied diet using vitamin suppliments. Fish infected with ich usually eat very well until the late stages. I do not believe that ich will go away by feeding them well.
Terry B

[john f]

Lymphocystis is reported to be improved in the company of a Long Tentacle Anenome. This is per Sprung.
Lympho usually looks like larger white spots, sort of califlower like.

John

[billsreef]

I wouldn't recomend adding the quick cure in with the inverts.

John,
Where did you come across that Sprung reference to LT anemones and Lymph?

[Terry B]

I like and respect Julian. We had lunch together one time and he has a great sense of humor, knows his stuff and is very intelligent. In all due respect, Julian is not a specialist in fish disease. I am not saying he doesn't know anything, but the idea of an anemone helping a fish with lymphocystis is probably just anecdotal. Having said all that, I do believe that there may be something to the idea that the persence of some types of invertebrates may somehow make for healthier fish. I have no proof of this it is just an observation. Perhaps they encourage the growth of some type of "good" bacteria or release some sort of antibodies.
Terry B

[Edited by Terry B on 12-04-2000 at 07:34 AM]

[john f]

"the idea of an anemone helping a fish with ich is probably just anecdotal."

I didn't say Ich. I said lymphocystis.
And yes, this idea is completely anectdotal, as are stories of Garlic curing Ich outbreaks ;)


John

[Terry B]

John,
There is a difference between anecdotal evidence that is only supported by one person or very few (like treating ich with a temp. or 86F) and consistant reports by a large number of people (garlic). At some point you have to give an idea some credibility because of sheer numbers.
Terry B

[Ohhno]

I have used a combo of to products to finally rid my 72 gal tank of the dreaded Ich ..
My 72 gal contained inverts and corals , ie large long tentacled anemone ,sebae anemone, bubble anemone, brown mushroom colony , green star polyp and a hammer coral .
My purple tang soon developed Ich after beening added to my tank and was soon followed by my longest resident my flame angel . I have succesfully used Tetra medica marin Oomed to eradicate the ich , I used according to the ( Invertebrates including corals and anemones 1.5ml per 10 gals ) directions and watched my inverts and corals closely for any severe reaction . My anemones closed up and star polyps disapeared when the medication was first added but opened and recovered shortly after dosing . I also ran my tank at about 85 degrees , because I was told it would speed up the metabolism of the fish and the ich . I also used a product by the name of Melafix by AP at the same time , to treat any bacterial break outs . I treated my tank in two 5-7 day cycles using charcoal inbetween to rid myself of the 1st cycles medication . I also feed exclusivly with tetra parasite and tetra bacteria about 4 times a day .
While all that was in my tank I owe great thanks to my cleaner wrasse and my cleaner shrimp who relentlessly picked and ate ick off of my infected fish .

during this time I also added a 15 watt ultra-violet sterilizer .It might have been overkill but I kicked its a@* once in for all with no loses......
I had previously battled ich with my hippo tang and lost him , but this time I was determind...........
as with any medication and treatments the key is use with caution and observe all inhabitants for any severe
reaction.........
I am currently overcoming a serious red slime outbreak

[Morgan]

I am rather new to the reef hobby so this may be a risk......... but I have a clown that started to get white spots. I went looking for some ick cure and found nothing @ my LFS that was invert safe. I ended up calling Jeff @ Jeff's exotic fish and he told me to do a fresh water dip for 3 minutes. So (scared) I put my clown in frsh water for three minutes and literally watched the white spots fall off my fish. At the end of the day, he was completely free of any reminance of the disease. WoW!!!!