I want to frag my big sarco but I can't

[Pinecone_Jeff]

I have this sarcophyton or toadstool coral that's getting big fast. I want to frag it, but I'm finding myself very reluctant to do so. It's so big and beautiful with super long polyp bases. They almost look like tentacles.

Anyway, I have 2 questions:

1) How many pieces and how big can I make the frags? The coral is currently about 10" to 12" in diameter. I know these guys get much bigger, but in my 37 gal, it seems huge! :)

2) I have a pair of skunk clownfish that call this coral their home. They weave in and out of the folds and tentacles just happy as can be. Will they be terribly upset if I chop up their home?

Thanks for any help!

[IsThisReal]

PCF,
I usually take a segment of the disk (triangular shaped) about 1.5-2.0" across at the outside and cut about halfway into the centre of the disk. I only take one, or at most two, cuttings at a time - not because I don't consider the parent will tolerate the abuse but simply from an appearance perspective as it will take some time for the parent to 'grow out' the cuts. I know some people cut right in and take a piece of the stem with the cutting. I think this is unecessary and potentially harmful to the parent although having said that these corals are tough guys.

Use a clean scapel or similar (I flame the blade to help avoid bacterial transfer). Dab the bottom of the frag with paper towel to remove excess moisture and super glue (gel type is easier to use) to a small piece of rock.

These frags are not the easiest to attach as they are damp and slippery and they shrink away as you work with them. Too small a cutting will end up as a tiny blob of matter in your hand! I tie darning thread to help hold the frag on the rock until it attaches itself. You can then cut the thread and pull it out just like suture removal - I often feel like an amateur surgeon when carrying out fragging ops. Haven't got the white gown yet tho ;-}.

[IsThisReal]

Just to be clear - I meant to say, 'cut halfway across the disk towards the stem'

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Thanks ITR! Nice descriptions. I'm still finding it hard to just cut into my sarco, but I'm gonna have to at some point. Thanks!

[griss]

Jeff,

I agree with Isthisreal. I just cut mine with a really really sharp pair of scissors.

Griss

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've also had great luck propagating Sarcophyton by cleanly slicing through the stalk several inches below the "cap". The "stump " grows a new cap rather quickly!
I rubberband two rocks together around the loose frag's base and place it in an area of moderate water movement.

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Thanks, Griss!
Hey, Gary. Does the stump grow back to it's original size? If so, how quickly?

All this is slowly helping get my nerves up to do this. I think the more I know, the easier it'll be. :D

[Gary Majchrzak]

Glad your'e gathering up your wits! Just remember,Jeff, it is very similar to cutting through UMBILICAL CORD! :D
I guess the re-growth rate will depend on your system: lighting,temp., food, etc.- but it is fairly and amazingly fast in my "low-nutrient" system.

[Pinecone_Jeff]

He's my baby!!! How can I cut his head off!!! :D :D :D

[big red]

I allowed several large sarco's to grow onto a rock (and attach at midpoint) and then cut with a scalpel around the base. They were only in shock for about a day and then extended polyps as normal. The base is slowly growing back. It took a couple of weeks to see the first buds that eventually gave rise to polyps. After about 6 weeks the polyps appear fully developed but there is no "disc" or top at this point. I believe it takes more time for the disc to take shape and grow. Of course, tanks differ so growth rates will vary.

Good luck.

FYI... great forum

[Jerry Gonzales]

I find it best to just jam medium sized rocks along the base of the leather. With in a week or so the leather will crawl up the rocks. And by doing this, the leather will leave behind small fragments, wich will form new leathers in no time. I have cut the leather also and found it easier for me, and more apeasing for my eyes to just let it frag itself. Jerry

[GARFVolunteer]

Many sarcophytons are very toxic. Propagating a 10-12 inch one while it in a 37-gallon tank could be disastrous to the other occupants. If at all possible, you should remove the coral from the tank.

A method I have found useful for propagating large sarchpytons is to cut completely around the outside of the coral so the propagated piece looks something like a large donut. Then cut the donut up into 3/4 inch pieces. These pieces can be mounted to rubble or allowed to settle in the bottom of the tank (low current) where they will attach to the substrate.

Here is a link that you may find useful. The one I cut in the video is small but the concept is the same. http://www.garf.org/MPegs/SarcoPropagation.html

[ThingsReef]

I never touch the base or stalk (whatever you call it). Mine is about 8" across and when I want to make some for trade or raffle with SNEReefers club I cut pieces about 3/4 of an inch and block it in with some rocks in a corner of my tank and wait 'till it attaches to the rock before I move it. Usually takes about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. I brush my hand against the coral until the tentacles are retracted and use sharp scissors to cut the piece.

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Lesbill1,
How big is your tank? Do find that your sarco slimes up alot? I have a 37 and I am worried about all the toxins these corals can release.

[ThingsReef]

I have a 90 with a dsb and the only filtration is a small cartridge of charcoal on one of my powerheads every so often and a homemade protein skimmer. Mine was sliming over almost weekly and I noticed that the charcoal delayed this. Now my tomato clown has "moved in" and it slimes over much less often. It hasn't affected anything else in the tank yet...not sure how toxic this stuff is I've just recently started hearing people discussing problems.

[IsThisReal]

My Sacro spontaneously 'threw' a baby about 8 wks ago. I noticed a minute brown growth I hadn't seen before on a rock eight inches or so away from the parent. At the time it was too small to ID. After a couple of weeks it was clearly a baby Sarco. It's now 3/4" tall with a pronounced disk and comparatively long polyps. The pic shows it clearly.

[Fishy Something]

I also have a large ( 12 - 14 inches diameter) Sarcophyton sp. that I am wanting to frag, however it has attached itself to a rock that I simply cannot remove from the tank, therefore any fragging must be done in situ in my 4 x 2 x 2 that is fairly heavily stocked with LPS & some SPS & a few other softies.

I am concerned about the effect of toxins on the remainder of my inhabitants, but this coral is simply taking too much space, & is shading to big an area so something must be done.

Am I better off taking a number of small frags over time, and gradually "whittle" it down to a manageable size, and have a smaller amount of toxin released over a longer period of time, or simple make a major incision & use the "donut technique" & get it done in 1 foul swoop, with a bit of extra current directed at the patient to ensure things get "washed away".

Also for how long does the coral secrete "nasties" after surgery?

TIA

James

[Gary Majchrzak]

Hey James: Greetings "Downunder"!
I wanted to mention that my "in tank" fragging was performed on smaller {less than 6"}Sarcophyton specimens.It was done in a 220 {US gallons}tank employing skimming- but no GAC {granular activated carbon}.
I would recommend the GARF technique for anyone with small tanks or to those with very large "Sarco's".
The visual {slime} "nasties" cease a few hours after slicing the coral.Any toxins released would be present and invisible until removed with filtration.I have SPS and did not experience any negative impact from toxins after slicing my "small" Sarcophyton in situ.
In your case {LARGE "toadstool"/in situ cut} I would probably choose the smaller, safer cut to play it safe.

[Fishy Something]

Thanks Gary, Thats what I thought would be the safest option too, I was just a bit concerned about the prolonged effect, rather than a one off, albeit greater effect.

BTW, di you grow out the frags in your main tank (further adding to the toxicity) or in a separate frag tank?

Thanks

James

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'm down to one {large} tank, so all frag grow out occurs there- although I've seen others use their sump for grow out as well.
I think you will be safe if you keep the skimmer running and using GAC. Good luck, mate!

[Fishy Something]

Thanks again

James

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Yes, thank you all for your input on this! I've looked at several web pages, GARF and Atlantis Aquatics, and have picked up some great tips also.

And a frag'n away we go!!!!!

[Frick-n-Frags]

You probably could use rubberbands and/or nylon tiewraps to slowly cut a leather up so that it doesn't have to be cut and spew juice into the water if you have to leave it in the main tank. My personal rule is no fragging in the tank and the fragwater gets pitched. I have a big Sinularia that I want to try this method on, cut it into 4 pieces with two monster broccoli rubberbands that I have been scavenging for :) Rubberbands easily morph through leathers. Probably the trick is to keep it from re-sealing over top of the rubberband. I was thinking about doing mushrooms like that too, maybe rubberband a whole shroom down tight and cut it into 2 or maybe 4 if it is big.

[Pinecone_Jeff]

Excellent suggestions. I used a broccoli band to hold the sarco onto a rock in the first place and it nearly cut the base off. But the band eventually broke before the end was cut off but not before the sarco attached. But I can totally see how your method works!